[kfgauss]

Jlall, on Sep 11 2005, 08:19 PM, said:

kfgauss, on Sep 11 2005, 04:30 AM, said:

Jlall, on Sep 11 2005, 05:51 AM, said:

I think 4N is either:

diamonds and clubs (with at least 2 more diamonds)
diamonds and hearts
good 5H bid.

Why not clubs & hearts?

What would the auction 1C 4S 4N p 5D p 5H show. Clubs and hearts or a strong 4H bid. You can't have it both ways but your way is certainly a reasonable way to play it, and I would like to have it if I picked up --- KQxxxx Kxx Kxxx, but with that hand I would just bid 5C and take my chances playing my way.

So would you also play that e.g. (4S) 4N (here you're second seat) doesn't include clubs+hearts? This would seem like a bigger loss to me. (If you don't, I'm impressed with the specificity of your agreements.)

The way I've played these auctions is that if you want to show a good 5H bid, you can try to by bidding 4N, and then you get to if pard bids 5C (else pard just doesn't know whether you have C+H or H). I suppose things could go poorly if there's further bidding by the opponents, but this doesn't seem like such a big deal.

----------------

mr1303, on Sep 11 2005, 07:25 PM, said:

Last time I bid 6H with a hand similar to the second variety after a similar auction. Partner put down a heart void and an 8 card diamond suit (he actually opened 1D). 6D was cold, 6H 3 off

Perhaps some combination of 4N..5N, 4N..5S, 5N, and 5S can help here if you want to go and bid 6H but want to keep 6C in the picture. I admit, I don't really see something perfect, but perhaps over 5S partner only bids 6C with a rather nice suit (and usually bids 5N)? 5S sounds like a raise, though, I guess, so this is probably wrong. Any thoughts?

Andy

[SoTired]

1) Never 4S. I hate 3-3 fits. Pass has some merit, but opps opened 4H vul vs not so may be only a trick shy and with ♥Qx falling, they could easily make. 4N seems only choice.

2) 6H seems right.

[mike777]

Just watched HBO Rome...as Caesar took Rome.

Go for the jugular;
1) pass
2) 6H

[Fluffy]

1) I would pass at any other vulnerability, but now I show some respect for the opponent, 4NT.

2) 5♥, nothing is good, and 4NT is blackwood to me sadly.

[Al_U_Card]

The_Hog, on Sep 11 2005, 04:33 AM, said:

Passing the first hand is very poor. Not only may 4H well make, this sort of thing destroys partnership confidence. Xs are for takeout!

Since I too play dbl for takeout, I would respect my pards request and bid 4S expecting to hear a 5H from RHO, which I would then dbl like Homer (with saliva drooling.....lol)

[pclayton]

Echo what Justin has said for the most part.

1) I pass on the first. Double is T.O.? Well, duh. I have a piece of defensive crap and my ODR is abysmal. Lets look at the alternatives: a) 4♠? This looks like a yummy spot with the tap getting taken in the wrong hand. b ) 4N - leading to 5 of a minor. Contracting for 11 tricks with this cheese doesn't look like winning bridge to me.

2) The 2nd is more awkward. I don't think this is a big 5♥ call, especially with the void opposite my pard's length. I'll just content myself with 5♥.

[han]

Having read this thread I have changed my opinion and I would pass the first hand. However, I don't agree with all the arguments:

"The tap getting taken in the wrong hand"

Don't think so, more likely I will let them take the first 2 heart tricks. Seems a common theme in 4-3 fits.

"I don't think this is a big 5H call, especially with the void opposite my pard's length."

Do you know something we don't? Didn't our opponents just jump to 4S vulnerable against not? Doesn't this suggest that partner is likely not to have long spades, and certainly not too much wasted in spades? In the unlikely event that partner does have a spade holding like KJxx, wouldn't partner know that these points are completely wasted (with the 4S bidder behind her), and stop in 5H, the same spot that you are going to play in?

I have slam interest opposite the right minimum. Partner will know what the right minimum is, so I should encourage her to bid 6 with those hands.

BTW Although I rarely play with female bridge players (unfortunately) I'm going to adopt the practice of saying her about half the time, unless I know who partner was. I'm getting tired of writing him/her and (s)he.

[Walddk]

Walddk, on Sep 11 2005, 08:58 AM, said:

Remind me not to double 4♥ with

AQxx
void
KJxxx
KQJx

or similar as I will lose a double game swing.

Roland

I wrote yesterday. So should doubler pass with that hand in order to reduce the loss (minus 620 instead of minus 790) when advancer converts? If passing the double is right, we will never get to the cold 5♦, will we?

If not, I have a clear pass over 4♥ with that hand!?? Please remind me when I get that hand again. I may have forgotten in the meantime.

Roland

[dogsbreath]

Hi
.. awkward hand for sure, but is disastrous for partnership confidence to pass a (primarily) takeout X with no trump trick or length and only one likely side-suit trick.
I'm bidding something (NOT 4S) ...depends on my p, 4nt or 5c
2nd hand i bid 5H .. no sensible way to explore slam and even 5H not safe.. i bet the slammers find partener with AQx spades
Rgds Dog

[the hog]

dogsbreath, on Sep 13 2005, 11:52 AM, said:

Hi
.. awkward hand for sure, but is disastrous for partnership confidence to pass a (primarily) takeout X with no trump trick or length and only one likely side-suit trick.
I'm bidding something (NOT 4S) ...depends on my p, 4nt or 5c
2nd hand i bid 5H .. no sensible way to explore slam and even 5H not safe.. i bet the slammers find partener with AQx spades
Rgds Dog

I see you have not lost your ability to bid Martin. Passing is disasterous.

[bucmar]

anybody for a takeout double in the second hand? planning to bid 5♥ if partner bids a minor suit

as for the first hand, 4♠ seems the best bid to me

[Winstonm]

The point on hand 1 seems to be how strict do you interpret takeout doubles - if doubler can be semi-unbalanced with something like: Axx, void, AJ10x, AKJxxx then bidding is better; however, I have found that these types of hands are less than desirable doubles as partner will leave them in too often so it is best to simply bid the long suit.

Knowing that partner is more balanced, usually 4144, 4045, 4243, makes the choice easier - it basically boils down to the 30-point deck concept: with a fit and a singleton, we have to have most of the HCP in the other 3 suits.

Assuming a reasonable double of 16-18, this hand holds only 22-24 combined HCP out of the 30-point deck - if there is a heart loser as well, there are simply not enough HCP to make 11 tricks in the remaining 3 suits likely; nor are there enough to think the opponents are making 10 tricks.

Therefore, pass looks the most reasonable of actions to go plus. No reason to think this is a big plus, but at this point any plus should be O.K.

The second hand is a good example of the need for agreements - using 4N to divide slam interest from hope-we-can-make-this hands is a reasonable approach.

Winston