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Question on an auction

#1 User is offline   davesayc 

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Posted 2012-September-05, 12:05

playing SAYC

1♣ - (1♥)-p-(p)
1nt shows (HCP)...??
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#2 User is offline   wyman 

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Posted 2012-September-05, 12:40

18-19
"I think maybe so and so was caught cheating but maybe I don't have the names right". Sure, and I think maybe your mother .... Oh yeah, that was someone else maybe. -- kenberg

"...we live off being battle-scarred veterans who manage to hate our opponents slightly more than we hate each other.” -- Hamman, re: Wolff
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#3 User is offline   aguahombre 

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Posted 2012-September-05, 12:45

Playing the Yellow Card is not relevant, here. Any natural system with a strong NT would be the same. Above the 1NT opening, below the 2NT opening.
"Bidding Spades to show spades can work well." (Kenberg)
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#4 User is offline   kenrexford 

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Posted 2012-September-05, 13:36

Although 18-19 is "correct," from a definitional standpoint, I have often wondered as to the utility of that call. It comes up so rarely, and there are often solutons with that strong of a hand anyway, should 1NT mean something else.

For example, wouldn't it be nice for 1♣-(1M)-P-P-1NT to show something like a true club suit with the other major, rather than simply takeout? I mean, contrast (after 1♣-(1♠)-P-P-?) these two hands:

♠xx ♥AKxx ♦AQx ♣J10xx

♠xx ♥AKxx ♦x ♣AQJ10xx

Give partner ♠Axx ♥xxx ♦xxxxx ♣Kx...
"Gibberish in, gibberish out. A trial judge, three sets of lawyers, and now three appellate judges cannot agree on what this law means. And we ask police officers, prosecutors, defense lawyers, and citizens to enforce or abide by it? The legislature continues to write unreadable statutes. Gibberish should not be enforced as law."

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#5 User is offline   Codo 

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Posted 2012-September-05, 16:11

This 18-19 hands seems to come up a lot to me after this bidding and even more often after 1m- (pass) pass (some bid)

And in Kens examples I would X with the first and bid 2 ♥ with the second. Should work good enough. Or is it well enough?
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#6 User is offline   PhilKing 

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Posted 2012-September-06, 06:27

Best is 1NT two-way:

18-19 bal or
void in their suit, minimum values, can't stand a penalty pass

This treatment comes with a guarantee that partner will be able to work out which hand-type you have except against people who make psychic passes of overcalls.

But I guess it won't make it into the next SAYC update ...
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#7 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2012-September-06, 16:39

View PostCodo, on 2012-September-05, 16:11, said:

Should work good enough. Or is it well enough?


It is good enough and it should work well enough.
Please note: I am interested in boring, bog standard, 2/1.

- hrothgar
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#8 User is offline   lycier 

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Posted 2012-September-11, 04:05

View Postdavesayc, on 2012-September-05, 12:05, said:

playing SAYC

1♣ - (1♥)-p-(p)
1nt shows (HCP)...??


1nt shows 18-19hcp with balanced hand and promise ♥ stopper.
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#9 User is offline   Zelandakh 

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Posted 2012-September-11, 04:23

Perhaps an interesting question is what 1♦ - (1M) - P - (P); 1NT should mean in a limited opening system (Precision, Polish, etc).
(-: Zel :-)
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#10 User is offline   helene_t 

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Posted 2012-September-11, 05:16

View PostZelandakh, on 2012-September-11, 04:23, said:

Perhaps an interesting question is what 1♦ - (1M) - P - (P); 1NT should mean in a limited opening system (Precision, Polish, etc).

In Polish, 1♦ could still be 17 points (and arguably the upper limit should be higher since 1♣-1♦-1[2di] is artificial so 18-20 hands with primarily diamonds can be awkward).

So I think that in Polish Club, 1NT could still be naturalish even though the 1♦ opening denies a balanced hand.

In Precision I think it should be 5♦4♣, then you bid 2♣ with 4♦5♣.
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