[SteelWheel]

All this talk here lately about Polish Club systems has me wondering: What is it about WJ05 that makes it not kosher on the GCC? Obviously, the 2D/2H/2S openings wouldn't be legal, but those aren't really the core of the system. One could just play "vanilla" 2-level preempts.

My understanding was that the main problem with the prior versions of WJ was the potentially strong meaning of the 1D response. With 1D responses now always being kind of "negativish" in meaning, it seems like that's no longer an issue.

Only other hitch I can think of is how the 1H/1S rebids (after a 1C opener receives a 1D response) are potentially on three-card fragments.

I've always been interested in multi-meaning club systems. I played around with Ron Klinger's Power System years ago--but obviously that one couldn't pass muster in ACBL-land. Millennium Club and Unassuming Club are both somewhat similar to Polish, but are based on a weak notrump opening, rather than 15-17.

Anyone want to give one of these (WJ05, Millennium, or Unassuming) a whirl on BBO some time?

Reply here or PM to stwheel@optonline.net

[awm]

Polish club has always been general chart in acbl events, except for the use of some preemptive openings (i.e. Multi, Wilcosz, etc) which are not an essential part of the system.

The relevent passages would seem to be:

Opening bids (1): One club (or one diamond) may be used as an all-purpose opening bid (artificial or natural) promising a minimum of ten high card points.

Responses and Rebids (1): [ALLOWED] One diamond as a forcing, artificial response to one club.

Responses and Rebids (7): [ALLOWED] All constructive calls starting with the opening bidder's second call.

Notice that the 1♣ opening is completely legal, as is the 1♦ response (even if it includes some possible strong meanings). Opener's rebid of a 3-card major is also completely fine.

[mycroft]

I have played against PC in the past that had what I believe to be non-standard auctions that weren't GCC; the last one of those was a 1H undefined, non-GF, disambiguating response to a Natural or strong NT 1D opener.

But from what I've read, WJ without the multi/Wilkosz/two-suited preempts has always been GCC.

As for 1C-1D could be strong; Precision since 1970 has had that auction "could be strong"; while most players (including me) no longer do this, originally all the GF 4441s went into 1D...and the GCC was written (among others) around making Wei's Precision legal.

Michael.

[SteelWheel]

Yeah, that's true (about the "Impossible Negative" response)..I should have remembered that since I've played so much Precision over the years. But like everyone else, I had long since left that one behind in favor of the Unusual Positive responses. Thanks.

I've been off the tourn circuit for several years. How much/how often does one see Polish Club type systems around nowadays? I know that in certain little pockets of the US and Canada it's probably fairly common (where there are significant numbers of Polish emigres). But in a typical big regional or NABC, what's a typical amount or percentage? Kind of wondering if this is turning into the new fad in North America, as Precision was in the '70s.

[Gerben42]

Quote

I have played against PC in the past that had what I believe to be non-standard auctions that weren't GCC; the last one of those was a 1H undefined, non-GF, disambiguating response to a Natural or strong NT 1D opener.

There is no such thing in Polish Club. 1♦ shows at least 4 cards and is natural, as is the 1♥ response to 1♦.

Good to see that one of the most natural systems around is actually allowed in the ACBL! Now if only the EBU would also give in...