[Poky]

Intermediate opponents. MP, all vul.

♠x
♥Q10xxx
♦xxx
♣J10xx

pass 1♦ pass 1♠
Dbl 1NT ???

[cherdano]

It is almost certain that the opponents have a spade game, and we won't stop them from bidding it. However, jumping to 3♥ should be safe enough, and may prevent them from finding out whether a slam is on.

Arend

[pbleighton]

3H is pretty clear.

Peter

[whereagles]

Double fit, sure game for opps. 5♥ must be the right move.

[cherdano]

whereagles, on Sep 3 2005, 03:13 PM, said:

Double fit, sure game for opps. 5♥ must be the right move.

Thanks, I will take my +800 for 65%.

Arend

[Free]

3♥ is more than enough.

[mr1303]

Is 3H defined as pre-emptive here? Or invitational. I'll bid 3H if it's pre-emptive, otherwise 2H

[Double !]

I MUST be wrong because I disagree with the bids suggested so far. It is not clear to me that the opps have a super spade fit, nor that partner has good clubs and hearts if we are playing sandwich NTs. P could simply have a good all-around hand which will be clarified. Opener did not make a support XX, but purposefully described and limited his/her hand by choosing 1NT over my P's dbl. I don't want to hang P by jumping all over the place once opener has gotten in a descriptive and limiting rebid. I would be surprised if my P has a reasonably strong, somewhat balanced hand.

[Blofeld]

Double !, on Sep 3 2005, 12:02 PM, said:

P could simply have a good all-around hand which will be clarified.

Remember that partner passed in first seat!

[Free]

mr1303, on Sep 3 2005, 05:16 PM, said:

Is 3H defined as pre-emptive here? Or invitational. I'll bid 3H if it's pre-emptive, otherwise 2H

Ofcourse it's preemptive: you have cuebids available to invite, so direct support is to play. Also, partner passed in opening seat, and I didn't bid over the 1♦ opening, so I can hardly see any hand which should invite since partner is only fighting the partscore.

Off the record: with my f2f partner we just can't have an invitational hand, since we open very light and Double with any 15+hcp hand (and overcall with 4-4 distributions).

[Double !]

Blofeld, on Sep 3 2005, 12:15 PM, said:

Double !, on Sep 3 2005, 12:02 PM, said:

P could simply have a good all-around hand which will be clarified.

Remember that partner passed in first seat!

oops

didn't see initial pass.
retract initial comments.

thank you for the reminder.

DHL

[Fluffy]

It seems like they have easy +650, you have to decide wich is your last safe level and bid it to temp them into an unworthy double. Sadly oppononets will hardly double at any level when you bid voluntarilly. So all in all I don't think it maters at all what we bid, and I will just try 2♥ with lead directing purposes.

[jdeegan]

whereagles, on Sep 3 2005, 08:13 AM, said:

Double fit, sure game for opps. 5♥ must be the right move.

5♥ is a brave effort, but is it worth the trouble or the risk? The hand is something of a read out. A passed partner likely has 3-4-1-5 distribution and around 10 HCP (he doubled in a live auction for hearts and clubs which have very little preemptive value, so he should be a fairly solid citizen here).

Almost sure losers are one spade, one heart (RHO bid 1NT), and one diamond. How many club losers do we have? Losing 2 clubs for down three is one major risk. Another would be a club ruff. Or if partner has two diamonds to lose. Worse yet, LHO may have a stiff heart or club so that 6 ♠ is a make - I don't want to push them into that when 3 ♥ would have been enough to put sand in their bidding gears.

In short, a 5♥ bid is betting on exactly nine tricks for us and 10 for them (or 11 if they don't take the push). Every other outcome is a loser. I am not ready to make that gamble even at matchpoints.

[mikeh]

We 'know' that the opps likely have a game based on hcp and a ♠ fit. We know that we have a horrible hand.

So, of course, it makes sense for us to use 3♥ as premptive, altho how we expect that to be useful is beyond me.

Unfortunately, unless we are playing 'adjective bridge' (where we can add the word 'weak' to our bid), 3♥ is going to sound like a pretty good hand willing to hear 4♥ (to make) if partner has a maximum.

And no, we do not have 2♦ as a cuebid: it shows long ♦ and a desire to play 2♦ rather than to pass. We do have 2♠ available as a cue, but again it requires adoption of adjective bridge to use it as an invitation to 4♥.

(Begin rant)

I still find it amazing how frequently the answers to bidding questions are based on selection of a meaning for a bid (or sequence) that 'fits' the given hand.

Give us x KJxx AJxx Kxxx and ask all the 3♥ bidders what they would bid (of course, I expect a flurry of 2♠, what else could it mean... reflecting the operation of the same thought-process) If you think that 4♥ is the correct bid opp a passed hand double, then reduce the strength of my example to an invitational hand for your style.

It is far more useful, altho more laborious, to give an auction (assuming a standard framework) and ask one to construct the hand-type shown. This would also reduce the frequency with which answers are based on unique bidding agreements, such that the answer is of virtually no help to any reader looking to learn something about bidding theory... and I am NOT taking shots at anyone specific on this: I am as guilty as most of putting forward pet ideas of mine as a way of avoiding a given difficult sequence. And, besides, there are some interesting ideas out there which might otherwise never get the audience they deserve. My comment is an objection to the sheer frequency of that type of response.

Okay, I have finished my rant for the day

[FrancesHinden]

I agree with Justin & Mike. 3H is invitational, so we can't bid it (mind you, maybe we should, it might be quite an effective psyche at this point).

I expect to concede 620 or 650 here.
I shall bid 2H anyway, just in case something else happens.
I might try more hearts NV, but I agree 800 is a strong possibility.

[joker_gib]

I have nothing and it's a free bid so I pass !

2♥ will not disturb opps and will give them extra information

Alain

[whereagles]

I think in this hand you either pass or bid 5H, but ok, that's just me. Bidding 2,3 or 4H is just going to help opps diagnose their assets better.