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Bidding with a beast Handling an uncomfortable hand

#1 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2005-September-03, 01:08

Scoring: IMP

Playing fairly solid openers, in first seat North elects to pass and hears this auction:

N E S w
P 1♥ 1♠ 2♥
?

Where do you go from here? East bids 3H if possible.

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#2 User is offline   Echognome 

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Posted 2005-September-03, 01:36

No offense, but object to passing originally. I would have opened 1♦ and felt better placed that I could bid clubs naturally now and then diamonds again later.
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#3 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2005-September-03, 01:44

Echognome, on Sep 3 2005, 02:36 AM, said:

No offense, but object to passing originally.  I would have opened 1♦ and felt better placed that I could bid clubs naturally now and then diamonds again later.

Of course, no offense taken. :D However, maybe you had your diamond king hidden behind a card and didn't see it until after you passed. If that were the case, what would you do now?

Winston
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#4 User is offline   Echognome 

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Posted 2005-September-03, 01:55

Fair enough. I bid 3♦ now and see what comes back to me. Perhaps I will come in again with 4NT later.

Edit: By the way, 9 hcp + 3 controls + 12 for two longest suits + 6 for longest minus shortests suit = 30 zar points!

9 hcp + 12 for two longest suits = rule of 21.

Both seem to indicate that this is a normal opener even playing sound opening bids.
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#5 User is offline   Blofeld 

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  Posted 2005-September-03, 10:43

If I'm going to mastermind by passing first time round, I'm going to have to pass now.

3♦ looks like a fit non-jump to me.

Maybe I can come in later.
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#6 User is offline   the hog 

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Posted 2005-September-03, 15:50

Good hand for MisIry. You get to a farly decent 5D contract.
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#7 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2005-September-03, 16:00

The_Hog, on Sep 3 2005, 05:50 PM, said:

Good hand for MisIry. You get to a farly decent 5D contract.

Not really RON, north's hand has five losers. Add to that (say change club JACK to CLUB Queen), I still would not open with a MisIry bid. 10 hcp is not enough with so few quick tricks, (in practice, however, hands CAN BE bid this weak, but the down side increase).

But, playing MisIry, I have no problem what soever opening north 1D and then jumping like heck in clubs, through the use of double... I guess my auction would be...

1D-(1H)-1S-(2H)
DBL-(3H)-Pass-Pass
4C - Pass - 5D

Since i play misiry, 4C is 4 losers too weak for misiry or strong hand with 5 loser. South has three possible covers (SA, DA, CQ). So game might very well be bid.
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Posted 2005-September-03, 20:55

Since the auction specifies an opening pass, I will not give you an auction after an opening 1D.

I would bid 3D over 2H expecting the bidding to not die. After 3H came back to me, I would bid 4N (2 card disparity). Agressive, and I have the wrong major suit stiff, but I need very little for game so I'd take a shot.
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#9 User is offline   Fluffy 

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Posted 2005-September-03, 21:12

Looks like an easy deal, at first you have to decide if a 7-5 is a 1 suiter or a 2 suiter, now you have no way to show both so you show a 1-suiter and end in the easy 5♦.
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#10 User is offline   Winstonm 

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Posted 2005-September-04, 01:03

Jlall, on Sep 3 2005, 09:55 PM, said:

Since the auction specifies an opening pass, I will not give you an auction after an opening 1D.

I would bid 3D over 2H expecting the bidding to not die. After 3H came back to me, I would bid 4N (2 card disparity). Agressive, and I have the wrong major suit stiff, but I need very little for game so I'd take a shot.

If you chose to bid 2N (good/bad/takeout) and corrected any bid to diamonds, would not this show the same thing without risking playing 3D on a game hand? It would be hard to imagine a true single suited diamond hand that passed originally and then backed in to this auction, wouldn't you think?

Winston
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#11 User is offline   mr1303 

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Posted 2005-September-04, 03:02

Yes, the difficulty here is any bid that you make is fit-showing. Partner will alert as such, and if he bids 4S, after alerting your 3D, you won't legally be able to bid 5C or 4NT afterwards.
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#12 User is offline   000002 

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Posted 2005-September-08, 08:31

what is "misiry"?

thx
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#13 User is offline   inquiry 

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Posted 2005-September-08, 08:46

000002, on Sep 8 2005, 10:31 AM, said:

what is "misiry"?

thx

MisIry is a convention tausght to me by my partner (Mishovnbg) and modified by us. Currently I think only 6 pairs in the world are using it, so I wouldn't lose any sleep worrying about running into it...

It is an opening bid of 2NT, 3C or 3D as a transfer preempt to the next higher suit, or a strong two suiter including the suit bid (for 2NT the bid suit is "hearts") and another suit that is not the suit you would have if you were weak.

It is described various places here on the BBF... for instance,

Misho (MisIry) Transfer Openings
World Class MisIry

And others... post as well. There is one thread dealing with optimal defense against it as well.
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Posted 2005-September-08, 09:29

Winstonm, on Sep 4 2005, 02:03 AM, said:

Jlall, on Sep 3 2005, 09:55 PM, said:

Since the auction specifies an opening pass, I will not give you an auction after an opening 1D.

I would bid 3D over 2H expecting the bidding to not die. After 3H came back to me, I would bid 4N (2 card disparity). Agressive, and I have the wrong major suit stiff, but I need very little for game so I'd take a shot.

If you chose to bid 2N (good/bad/takeout) and corrected any bid to diamonds, would not this show the same thing without risking playing 3D on a game hand? It would be hard to imagine a true single suited diamond hand that passed originally and then backed in to this auction, wouldn't you think?

Winston

No I do not think 3D should imply or show any kind of fit for partner and certainly could be based on the 1 suited hand type. I have always been against these "fit showing non jumps" in a non obvious auction like this. What would I bid with x Q Kxxxxxx AJxx. If you would preempt with that, what about x x JTxxxxx KQxx. A lot of hands are consistent with passing then bidding 3D without a fit. I do know if I DID have a fit, I'd have a lot of other ways of showing it.

As for 2N being takeout, what is X? Many would interpret 2N as natural. If you don't buy that a passed hand can have a 2N bid as a passed hand, that's reasonable but it will be hard to ever show about 11 balanced with good heart stoppers otherwise. You could get stolen from. And to show the minors, you could always X. I do not think bidding 3D really risks playing 3D on a game hand when I have 1 major suit card, partner would need a LOT of cards in the majors for it to go all pass, in which case we wouldn't have a game. Even if 2N were for the minors, I would be very poorly placed if they bid 4H (which isnt THAT unlikely) and it got passed back to me. Do I bid 5D now? Partner could hardly correct to clubs.
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#15 User is offline   Chamaco 

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Posted 2005-September-08, 10:18

What's wrong about a responsive double with the North's hand ?
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#16 User is offline   han 

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Posted 2005-September-08, 10:46

Given that I missed the diamond king on the first round, I have to pass now. I play that a bid at the 3-level or higher by a passed hand promises 3+ support. I really can't do that with a void!

A very good reason not to pass originally, I'll sort my cards better in the future.
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#17 User is offline   newmoon 

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Posted 2005-September-08, 10:52

Having passed originally (I would have opened 1♦) I now double.

Easy bid I think. :rolleyes:
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#18 Guest_Jlall_*

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Posted 2005-September-08, 10:54

Easy until partner jumps to 3S. Or passes the X. Or the auction goes 1H 1S 2H X 4H passed around to you. I think Xing is shortsighted, but it may just be my instincts of not Xing with 7-5 kicking in.
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