[Flame]

Any thought of this system ? Especially on the new version with kokish 1h as on daniel's site.
I like it and think the new version is a real improvment putting the polish 1 cluber in the same place of the precision's 1 club.
Im considering playing it with a new partner.

[david_c]

I don't like AUC because I feel it puts you in a bad position on the "strong no-trump" hands. The problem is that your 1♣ bid only promises about 11HCP, so opening 1♣ with a strong no-trump hand doesn't get the hand across. I much prefer Polish Club variants (changing to a strong 1NT opening) or Millennium Club variants (changing to a Precision 2♣ opening). AUC tries to avoid both these things and I don't think it works.

[Flame]

david do you mean you dont like any weak NT system because the 15-17 balanced is opened with a bid that show 11+ ?

[david_c]

Flame, on Aug 8 2005, 10:04 AM, said:

david do you mean you dont like any weak NT system because the 15-17 balanced is opened with a bid that show 11+ ?

Yes.

But this problem seems to be worse in AUC than in other weak no-trump systems. Possibly the reason is that opponents will interfere over the AUC 1♣ more readily than over natural opening bids. [And the fact that you haven't shown a suit doesn't help either.]

[cwiggins]

If you don't like the weak NT, you won't like AUC.

On the other hand, there's a lot to like about the new version of AUC compared to Polish:
* there are no awkward 1C-1D; 1M sequences (possibly 3).
* 2C shows 6+ and denies a 4CM.
* Both 1C-1D; 1H and 1C-1D; 2D and up remind me of Romex, which I like
* The follow ups after 1C-1M; 2C are simple and effective.

When competition occurs after 1C, responder doesn't need more than 6 points to get in the auction with a negative double, and responder can sometimes leverage that if opener is weak, he has 4+ clubs.

[orion1147]

If you are willing to memorize several conventional response structures after interference, it is not usually a problem to get your hand across to the 1C opener. Bids over 1-level interference are clearly defined, usually allowing for more descriptive bids than if opponents pass. Over higher-level interference, bad results when we miss our best game or slam are balanced out by good results when opener was a minimum and opponents can't find the right partscore (sometimes game) or when we can penalize. Opponents who wildly overcall as if it were a big club are right sometimes, but not only are they sometimes wrong because they can go for a big number, sometimes they are wrong because the hand belongs to them. It may be true that the system is best-suited for matchpoints.

While the 1C system is well-designed, particulary for the 19+ point hands, my favorite part of AUC is when we open something other than 1C. AUC is compatible with most any 5-card major system and it allows 1D to guarantee 4 cards, and all openings other than 1C are limited to at most 18 pts. The 2C opening allows you to explore for NT without fearing that you are missing your major-suit fit. Further, you can play 2D/H/S however you like, and 2NT can be a pre-empt in both minor suits.

When we do open 1C and it is not the 19+ hand (clarified at opener's second bid), opener never has a diamond suit (15-17 bal with 4 diamonds is opened 1D) so all diamond bids are available for conventional uses. This is just fantastic! For example in the following auctions 1S by responder shows 6+ pts and 4+ spades and the 2D bid makes everything easier:

1C - 1S - 2D: weak reverse, 5 clubs, 4 hearts, 11-14 pts
1C - 1S - 2H: strong reverse, 5 clubs, 4 hearts, 15-18 pts
1C - 1S - 2S: 3 or (usually) 4 spades, at most 16 pts
1C - 1S - 3D: diamond splinter, 4-card raise, 17-18 pts
1C - 1S - 3H: heart splinter, 4-card raise, 17-18 pts
1C - 1S - 3S: balanced 4-card raise, 17-18 pts

Common hands are handled by low-level bids and specific rare hands can be clearly described at a higher level. The rest of the system after 1C - 1S:

1C - 1S - 1N: 15-16 bal
1C - 1S - 2C: game forcing, 19+
1C - 1S - 2N: 17-18 bal
1C - 1S - 3C: 6+ clubs, no 4cM, 16-18 pts

[awm]

Multi-meaning 1♣ openings tend to work great when the opponents are passing. The difficulty comes after interference. In a way, an always-strong 1♣ (i.e. precision) leaves you better placed because partner is free to act on fairly weak hands, knowing that opener has the strength.

Traditional Polish club structures deter the opponents from interfering a bit (since opener is often a weak notrump) in exchange for making things less clearcut when the opponents do apply the pressure. At least opener is fairly secure in passing all the weak notrump hands, meaning that if opener makes a free bid it will always show extras.

The difficulty in a style like AUC is that opener will often have a fairly weak hand (i.e. the low end of a strong notrump, or a minimum distributional opener) and yet feel compelled to take free bids when the opponents intervene. Selling to a two-level preempt with a strong notrump tends to be losing tactics, since partner isn't necessarily free to act with intermediate values. Similarly it pays to balance with a three-suited pattern (4135 or the like) short in opponents suit. But since opener will now make free bids on a wide range of values and patterns, it can become much tougher to distinguish the truly strong openers from the minimum ones.

[Chamaco]

awm, on Aug 9 2005, 08:53 AM, said:

Multi-meaning 1♣ openings tend to work great when the opponents are passing. The difficulty comes after interference. In a way, an always-strong 1♣ (i.e. precision) leaves you better placed because partner is free to act on fairly weak hands, knowing that opener has the strength.

Traditional Polish club structures deter the opponents from interfering a bit (since opener is often a weak notrump) in exchange for making things less clearcut when the opponents do apply the pressure. At least opener is fairly secure in passing all the weak notrump hands, meaning that if opener makes a free bid it will always show extras.

The difficulty in a style like AUC is that opener will often have a fairly weak hand (i.e. the low end of a strong notrump, or a minimum distributional opener) and yet feel compelled to take free bids when the opponents intervene. Selling to a two-level preempt with a strong notrump tends to be losing tactics, since partner isn't necessarily free to act with intermediate values. Similarly it pays to balance with a three-suited pattern (4135 or the like) short in opponents suit. But since opener will now make free bids on a wide range of values and patterns, it can become much tougher to distinguish the truly strong openers from the minimum ones.

I agree on most of these points.

However, I think these problems can be solved by using:

a. 2D opening = 18-20 bal hand
b. 2C opening = 9-12 hcp hands with clubs

By this, we remove from 1C opener, both the 18-20 bal hands and the weak(ish) hands with clubs.
This makes sure that, usually, 1C is a sound opening:
-if balanced, it is without exception specificay 15-17;
it is an INVALUABLE advantage, for nebulous openers, that the balanced-type has ONE AND ONE ONLY hcp range;
-if unbalanced, it is at least a good 13 (good controls or good suits).

With these certainties, I think that the weak NT Unassuming Club does not perform worse than Polish Club after interference.

Of course you give up the 2D pener for something else, but everything has a price :-)

[vang]

in this new version, isn't the sequence 1c-1d-2c (= 4H-5+C, 11-18) difficult to handle?

[SteelWheel]

Ok, cards on the table: I've been intrigued by both of these systems for some time now. Who's interested in trying out playing either Unassuming Club or Millennium Club. Starting off online, then maybe hitting some ACBL events when the partnership is well practiced.

Just for some background on me: Silver LM with many Blue Ribbon quals, mostly inactive the past few years (poker has become my primary game thanx to the greepoint$), but I'd like to return to bridge if I could put together the "right partnership". (Sheesh, sounds like a personal ad, doesn't it?) http://forums.bridge...ges/1/icon4.gif
http://forums.bridge...ges/1/icon4.gif
smilie

Anyone interested, post here, or better still, send PM to: stwheel@optonline.net