[jillybean]

Not surprisingly, 3 passes to you.

---

[smerriman]

All we're interested in is a spade control, so rebid 4♦ to set trumps, not 3♦. If partner has a heart control and bids 4♥, 5♣ to show we're missing spades, passing a 5♦ signoff.

[mike777]

 smerriman, on 2025-March-12, 21:35, said:

All we're interested in is a spade control, so rebid 4♦ to set trumps, not 3♦. If partner has a heart control and bids 4♥, 5♣ to show we're missing spades, passing a 5♦ signoff.

Well said, as usual

[jillybean]

---

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

the original start / posted auction was fine, sure 4D sets trumps, but so does bidding 4D over 3D.
And it has the advantage of being obv., 4D after 2D could be interpreted / constructed as a self splinter,
due to the fact, that 3D was nat. and forcing, besides that, I am for sure I in no mans land after 4D,
where nobody knowes, what is going on, if he can trust the auction happening on the other side of the table.

In the auction, if all are on the same page, 5C denies a spade control, responder has a spade control and
should bid 5S, but dont ask, if this is the auction I would have choosen at the table.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mw64ahw]

How does 4N as a specific Ace ask work here?
4N-7N?
Nope
4N-5♠
6N-7N

[smerriman]

P_Marlowe, on 2025-March-13, 00:42, said:

the original start / posted auction was fine, sure 4D sets trumps, but so does bidding 4D over 3D.
And it has the advantage of being obv., 4D after 2D could be interpreted / constructed as a self splinter,
due to the fact, that 3D was nat. and forcing, besides that, I am for sure I in no mans land after 4D,
where nobody knowes, what is going on, if he can trust the auction happening on the other side of the table.

Interesting, I would have said the opposite.. 2♣ followed by a jump setting trumps and demanding a cue seems pretty universal (and opening 2♣ with a three suited hand then jumping in my short suit isn't on my radar). 3♦ then 4♦ is a lot murkier.

mw64ahw, on 2025-March-13, 00:56, said:

How does 4N as a specific Ace ask work here?
4N-7N?
Nope
4N-5♠
6N-7N

If partner shows no aces, how are you stopping in 5♦ without the spade king and bidding slam with?

[mw64ahw]

smerriman, on 2025-March-13, 02:50, said:

If partner shows no aces, how are you stopping in 5♦ without the spade king and bidding slam with?

Good question.
Anyone know of any direct/clever approach that asks for a specific control rather than Ace?

I put primary strong ♦ though 2♦ so my auction would go
2♦-2♥ (too strong for 3♥ as 33M)
3♣ 6+♦<4M-3♥ 5♥
4♣ ctrl, H♥, denies ♠ ctrl - 4♠ even KCs, ♠ ctrl
7N

[shyams]

I would not have passed originally with the East hand. Sure, it has exactly 10 HCP but these are 1 AK in a suit + another K in a long suit (longest, in this instance).

I usually open all 12 HCP, and some 11 HCP hands. Opening a 10 HCP hand is rare, but surely this is prime candidate & the hand deserves a 1♥ opening.

If East opens, I say it's impossible for E/W to be in anything other than 7NT.

[jillybean]

shyams, on 2025-March-13, 07:33, said:

I would not have passed originally with the East hand. Sure, it has exactly 10 HCP but these are 1 AK in a suit + another K in a long suit (longest, in this instance).

I usually open all 12 HCP, and some 11 HCP hands. Opening a 10 HCP hand is rare, but surely this is prime candidate & the hand deserves a 1♥ opening.

If East opens, I say it's impossible for E/W to be in anything other than 7NT.

With a partner like you, I would be in a lot of 7NT's

[mike777]

Yes, NV I would open 1C with the east hand.
Edit
My phone cut off east hand
Saw it as.
4414 shape ten Hcp hand

Nevermind..

Smile
Yes see getting to 7NT

Unfortunately it will take a very trustworthy partnership

A partnership well practiced in cuebidding
For me.

Well practiced in XYZ

Well practiced in Kickback, or in this specific example, how to cuebid around kickback without ever using it

A really difficult bidding hand in practice for me
...........

The hand becomes easy to bid, if I could see someway for west to use Kickback, unfortunately I don't see a way.
As a result the hand becomes a cuebidding exercise, great interesting hand..

[mw64ahw]

mike777, on 2025-March-13, 08:02, said:

Yes, NV I would open 1C with the east hand.
Yes see getting to 7NT

Unfortunately it will take a very trustworthy partnership

A partnership well practiced in cuebidding
For me.

Well practiced in XYZ

Well practiced in Kickback, or in this specific example, how to cuebid around kickback without ever using it

A really difficult bidding hand in practice for me

1♣?
Like shyams I open 1♥ as East, replying 2♥ min. after 2♦

[mike777]

mw64ahw, on 2025-March-13, 08:19, said:

1♣?
Like shyams I open 1♥ as East, replying 2♥ min. after 2♦

Oops my phone cut off the east hand

I see it as 4414 ten point hand..
Really made it interesting..

I note even after starting
1h.2d
2h..4d

it becomes an excellent cue bidding exercise since 4h would be kickback and east should really cue bid 4s and not take control with kickback.



Smile

[jillybean]

smerriman, on 2025-March-12, 21:35, said:

All we're interested in is a spade control, so rebid 4♦ to set trumps, not 3♦. If partner has a heart control and bids 4♥, 5♣ to show we're missing spades, passing a 5♦ signoff.

This is another hand that I didn't get to play, I was Directing and of course received a lot comments and questions on it.
Computer Dealt hands!

I was discussing this hand with a partner who agrees 3♦ setting trump.
We have already announced a strong hand, why do we want to jump to the 4 level?

[mike777]

On what auction does 3d "set" trumps?

[jillybean]

If East passes

2♣:2♦
3♦

We have shown a strong, gf, single suit hand.

[mike777]

 jillybean, on 2025-March-14, 07:00, said:

If East passes

2♣:2♦
3♦

We have shown a strong, gf, single suit hand.

Ok, what do you bid with both D and C suits?
Ok, what is your minimum looking D Suit on this auction?

[jillybean]

A 2♣ start with a strong 2 suited hand is problematic, I prefer to open 1x.

You can expect ♦HHH 7th+ after 2♣:2♦ 3♦. 7222 7321
It's a hand I want to play in diamonds