[helene_t]

Another poll about basic Precision, not as you play it with your regular p but as you would play it with a pick-up p.

When Precision was invented, everyone played strong jump shifts (allthough most Precision authors played non-forcing jump shifts after a 1♣ opening). Nowadays all kinds of natural and artificial jumps shifts are fasionable.

[david_c]

Shouldn't this wait until the result of the "how forcing is a 2/1" poll is decided?

My vote would be as follows -

If 2/1 is GF: 3♣ = natural, pre-emptive
If 2/1 is GF except rebid: 3♣ = fit jump with 3-card support
If 2/1 is SAYC-style: 3♣ = some sort of 4-card raise
If 2/1 does not promise a rebid: 3♣ = natural, strong

[helene_t]

You're right, David. If you think this depends on the result on the "How forcing"-poll, it's a good idea to wait with this one.

[bearmum]

david_c, on Jul 17 2005, 10:00 PM, said:

Shouldn't this wait until the result of the "how forcing is a 2/1" poll is decided?

My vote would be as follows -

If 2/1 is GF: 3♣ = natural, pre-emptive
If 2/1 is GF except rebid: 3♣ = fit jump with 3-card support
If 2/1 is SAYC-style: 3♣ = some sort of 4-card raise
If 2/1 does not promise a rebid: 3♣ = natural, strong

because this is a "BASIC PRECISION" thread Maybe david didn't realise where BASIC Precision systems differ from "sayc" or "2/1" or even "Acol" ( and other systems I don't list here because I don't know what they are called) as in Precision the 1♦♥♠ openers are LIMITED to 15 pionts


In ANY version of Precision I have EVER played in 35 (yes thirty five years of playing different Precision systems I have NEVER played 2/1 as game force cos system does NOT need it

Even over a Precision 1♣ a JS to 2 level is NOT a game force !! ( at BEST shows a positive club or diamond suit ( 2♣ or 2♦ response) and 2♥/♠ shows 4-7 and a SIX card ♥/♠ suit -- so is NOT game force

[david_c]

bearmum, on Jul 17 2005, 10:58 AM, said:

because this is a "BASIC PRECISION" thread  Maybe david didn't realise where  BASIC  Precision systems differ from "sayc" or "2/1" or even "Acol" ( and other systems I don't list here because I don't know what they are called)  as in Precision the 1♦♥♠ openers are   LIMITED to 15 pionts


In ANY version of Precision I have EVER played  in 35 (yes thirty five years of playing different Precision systems  I have NEVER played 2/1 as game force cos system does NOT need it      

Hmm. Despite what you say, all four of the options I described above have had some support in the poll "(non)forcing after a 2/1". I did not intend the statement "if 2/1 is GF then 3♣ should be natural and pre-emptive" to imply that I think 2/1GF is sensible in Precision. But since people are voting for it, we'd better consider the possibility of it being adopted.

This post has been edited by david_c: 2005-July-17, 05:17

[csdenmark]

..

[MickyB]

CS - I think you missed the top of the poll. We are voting for the meaning of 1♠-(P)-3♣.

[csdenmark]

MickyB, on Jul 17 2005, 02:17 PM, said:

CS - I think you missed the top of the poll. We are voting for the meaning of 1♠-(P)-3♣.

Sorry Micky - you are quite right. I need to realize where the first point is to be blind.

I delete my post now as it is obsolete.

[Double !]

i would play the J-S as strong, GF+, natural with new P because that is how many players initially learned it (Wei, Goren, Reese, Wei-Anderson). Is this the best way (wei)? Not sure, probably not. But it is least likely to create misunderstandings.
What I find interesting is how few people play/ recall that Precision initially (if not still does) used a 2NT response to 1D& 1M as showing 16+, not Jacoby or various off-shoots where 2NT shows limit raise or better. It also played 1M - 3NT as forcing raise in M, seemingly adapted from some earlier systems like K-S.

If you really want to have fun, take a poll r.e. what an opening 3C bid shows. (hint-hint: It ain't your normal pre-empt per se.)

[luke warm]

i think it should be some strength showing bid with 4 card support, but i also think there should be some way to show mini splinters below game level... if you use 1M : 3M as a limit raise (4 cards), then the j/s can be same hand with splinter

[Chamaco]

Fitbid or minisplinter is the most effective in my opinion (then GF hand with 4+ trump support would go via a "Sanian"-like 2NT).

I doubt, however, that this could be set and expected as "Standard" Precision structure...

[whereagles]

Keep it simple. Use strong jump shifts. Opposite a limited opening, they work well.

[Chamaco]

whereagles, on Jul 18 2005, 12:44 PM, said:

Keep it simple. Use strong jump shifts. Opposite a limited opening, they work well.

I like strong JS in a major, but for strong natural JS in a minor the frequency/gain does not seem to be a winner.

[whereagles]

Hum... you want something simple or complicated? SJS is simple... Besides, I don't think what you say is correct

[bearmum]

whereagles, on Jul 19 2005, 01:44 AM, said:

Keep it simple. Use strong jump shifts. Opposite a limited opening, they work well.

Ditto

[keylime]

Fit jumps please, and thank you.

[Gerben42]

No strong jumpshifts please! What century are we in anyway? Fit jumps is a good idea for example, or minisplinters which is basically the reverse.

You don't need SJS in a limited opening system (well not in any system but especially not in a limited opening system)