[mikl_plkcc]

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Obviously there is no fit, and the 2♥ by West means 3NT is no longer possible by me due to missing ♥ stopper.

I was playing with a robot. I bid 3♥ hoping to see 3NT if my partner has a stopper, or another bid without, but it was interpreted as a strong hand and triggered Blackwood, and the contract ended up a bad 5♦-3.

In this case, can I pass 3♦ despite the auction is game forcing, playing 2/1 GF? What will my partner think if I play with a real human?

[mw64ahw]

I'd bid 3N with K976♥ unless 3♦ is a self-sustaining suit slam try.
Not sure why West didn't open with 2♥

[jillybean]

3nt could be an underbid. K972 is a solid stopper, the holding is protected from the lead.

[jillybean]

mikl_plkcc, on 2025-February-11, 16:53, said:

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What will my partner think if I play with a real human?

Again, I could be censored here.

If I was your partner and you passed, this would be the one of the first boards for the post game discussion.

[smerriman]

Looks like a fine heart stopper to me.

If you're playing in a *best hand* robot tournament, where you know your partner has at most 13 HCP, then of course you can often exploit that knowledge.. though I still wouldn't pass here.

But in any other situation, your partner is unlimited - you'd look pretty silly passing when partner has a huge hand.

[mike777]

1. Not a game force hand, respond 1H
2. 3D shows non-minimum + unlimited...

[jillybean]

mike777, on 2025-February-11, 19:19, said:

1. Not a game force hand, respond 1H
2. 3D shows non-minimum + unlimited...

Definitely not a game force hand opposite your openings.
I agree with 1H

[jdiana]

I don't understand the statement about missing a heart stopper. On this hand, I'd bid 3NT and hope for the best.

To answer your question, though:

1. I know this is obvious but, once we're in a game force, interference by the opponents doesn't "turn off" the game force.

2. Whether or not a 2/1 bid is 100% forcing to game or whether you permit stopping below game is a matter of partnership agreement. I think virtually everyone plays 1M-2x as 100% GF. I'm a little more sympathetic to allowing for a bailout in 4m in 1♦-2♣ auctions when we have a misfit and a try for notrump has failed. (I still believe in the old fashioned guideline of needing about 28 HCP for a minor suit game and it's easy enough to be short of that, even in a 2/1 auction.)

But I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority. Most people I've heard from don't think it's worth it to try to stop on a dime in 4m. (Note 4m not 3m; I would never pass this 3♦ bid.) If you do allow for that, though, the situations where it applies have to be clearly spelled out and agreed to. Not something I would ever do in a pickup partnership, undiscussed (let alone against a robot).

[jdiana]

jillybean, on 2025-February-11, 17:36, said:

3nt could be an underbid. K972 is a solid stopper, the holding is protected from the lead.

Ever the optimist . . .

[fuzzyquack]

How come you know you have only 25HCP?

[johnu]

jillybean, on 2025-February-11, 17:40, said:

If I was your partner and you passed, this would be the one of the first boards for the post game discussion.

In the BBO Main Bridge club, unless you're playing with a regular partner, expect to be bounced from the table, maybe preceded by a string of insults.

[P_Marlowe]

Can I pass 2/1 game forcing when a misfit is shown We have 25 HCP but I think a game is no longer possible

#1 you can, if you are right, all the glory to you, if you are wrong and you get blamed: shut up,
and if it kills the rest of the tournament, because partner was thrown and never recovered: shut up

#2 As far as I can see, it is quite likely, that you have 6 diamonds, 2S, and 1? which means 3NT makes,
sometimes it does not, happens

[johnu]

For the general question as to whether you can stop below game in a 2/1 game force auction, some play that you can stop in 4 of a minor, usually when there is competition and 3NT has been ruled out, and 5 of a minor is probably too high (ie a rule of thumb is that the 5 level requires a king more than the 4 level).

[jillybean]

jdiana, on 2025-February-11, 21:16, said:

Ever the optimist . . .

Let's see the full hand. I still have a partner.

[bluenikki]

It was you who decided to force to game. You already knew that very often opener would rebid diamonds, so you _should_ have been comfortable with a game contract in that case. It is never good Idea to try to correct what seems to have been a bad decision. For one thing, it seldom works.

Being a "game-forcing hand" does not mean game will _make_ no matter what misfitting rag your partner decided to open. For that, you would need 20 hcp or so.

[smerriman]

bluenikki, on 2025-February-12, 14:36, said:

It was you who decided to force to game. You already knew that very often opener would rebid diamonds, so you _should_ have been comfortable with a game contract in that case. It is never good Idea to try to correct what seems to have been a bad decision. For one thing, it seldom works.

Sure, you can expect your partner to rebid diamonds, and you're perfectly fine:
1♦ - 2♣
2♦ - 2♥

LHO coming in with 2♥ over a GF having passed originally isn't something that I would have taken into account when choosing 2♣. But the whole thing appears to come down to the OP thinking they don't have a stopper when they do.

[mikl_plkcc]

This is the hand

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https://webutil.brid...1367-R1-B4-I140

[mycroft]

Ah, "failure to play GIB 2/1" strikes again.

I don't know what *you* thought 3♥ showed (frankly, I'd be asking for a heart stopper for 3NT), but from your post of the hand, you can see what GIB thought it showed - 3 diamonds and extra values. And you can see that by hovering over the 3♥ call in the box before you bid it and run away screaming from that call (probably to 3NT-and-hope), because you have neither of those things.

That looks like a "hole" in the bidding database; I'm sure smerriman will tell me what causes the robot to think this utter codswollop. But you can't teach the robot your system, you have to play hers, sane or insane as you think it is.

I am very firmly of the opinion that "once you decide your hand is an X, you can never decide it's a non-X. It might be a good X, a misfitting X, or a horrible X, but never not an X." Here, you decided that even opposite a likely 6 diamond 12-count, your hand was a game force. Now that you've got your nightmare, you'd better still get to game, or next time partner will misdescribe her hand "so you don't change your mind again, partner". Okay, not GIB, but I only play with robots to waste time in line or on the bus; I'm concerned about real human partners.

[jillybean]

GIB doesn’t have a gender but if it did, it wouldn’t be female.