[jillybean]

I get the most interesting hands while I am filling in a time playing on BBO, with random partners.
Here's one that I am interested to see how you approach this hand, what's your plan?

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[smerriman]

1♦. When short in a major one of the other three players is likely to bid, after which I can jump in clubs to show shape and strength. If I open 2♣ I'm somewhat forced into a 2nt rebid (3♦ takes up so much room and doesn't really get us anywhere). And if partner can't respond to 1♦, game chances after 2nt don't look that great anyway.

[mike777]

Vast majority here will open 1D
Beginners and Zia (if a recent quote is accurate) may open 2C

I can live with either.

[pescetom]

For me this is a clear 2♣ and then 2NT if the opps (CHO included) haven't blasted hearts.
I'm neither a beginner nor a peer of Zia, although I suspect I have better methods over 2♣ than most.

[jillybean]

mike777, on 2025-February-08, 13:01, said:

Vast majority here will open 1D
Beginners and Zia (if a recent quote is accurate) may open 2C

I can live with either.

What do Zia and pescetom bid over 2C 2D

I see pescetom's auction is 2♣ 2♦ 2N
Which OP is my CHO in America?

[mw64ahw]

My solution to this type of hand is to put them though
2N - 3♣ now
a) Pass pre-emptive Clubs
b) 3♦ xx(54) 22+
c) 3♥ 55xx 22+
d) 3♠ xx55 22+
e) 3N xx46 22+

3♣ is Weak xx55

BD 20-21 goes via reverse Kokish

[jdiana]

This is a strong hand, worth more than its 22 HCP. I value it at 24 points. I'm reluctant to upgrade NT hands by more than 1 point because I think it can sometimes mess partner up, e.g., with quantitative raises. But, here goes. I would also start with 2♣, but I lack imagination.

We play 2♥ as a bust, 2♦ GF. Our notrump ladder goes up in 2-point increments; 2♣ - 2♦ - 3NT shows 24-25 HCP. I would upgrade into that range. Even if partner responded 2♥, I would bid 3NT. I would feel better about this plan if we had good methods for finding minor suit slams, but we don't.

There are a lot of other approaches after 2♣, many of which are better than what we had, and 1♦ might be better anyway. I defer to the experts.

[thepossum]

I am likely in the sometimes 2C 2NT camp and occasionally the 1 diamond camp

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

playing with a random, your best bet is to start with 1D, planning to make the gf move 3C,
this showes 54 and gf values.

If you start with 2C, what is your bid after 2D? 2NT, how do you feel, if p uses a xfer to 3H?

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jillybean]

P_Marlowe, on 2025-February-08, 16:26, said:

If you start with 2C, what is your bid after 2D? 2NT, how do you feel, if p uses a xfer to 3H?

With kind regards
Marlowe

hi,
I'm not worried yet, partner won't force 4♥ without 6 cards

[mycroft]

I agree with smerriman (which will not surprise anybody). For exactly his reasons, too.

If I do open 2♣, I will not be treating it as a two-suiter minor hand (how do I show that before I go down?), but as balanced. And I expect partner to put me in 3NT with the ♥K or ♠Q and out, or in 4♥ with QJ9xxx and, hopefully, a singleton (probably in diamonds?)

And yes, I go down a lot, and will a lot more. I'm not afraid of going down; that's the price we pay for some of the games that make. But "if we belong in game, partner won't pass 1♦." Okay, if he has a weak 2♥ response, then they may not run 4 heart tricks and a trick, and enough tens and nines will get me 9 tricks. Otherwise?

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2025-February-08, 14:32, said:

What do Zia and pescetom bid over 2C 2D

I see pescetom's auction is 2♣ 2♦ 2N
Which OP is my CHO in America?

CHO is your favourite opponent, the one sitting opposite you.
And no idea about how Zia would like to bid here, although my impression is that he has learned he can win by playing infinitely better than opponents rather than rely on exotic bidding agreements like us mortals

Not at all sure I will get to 2♣ 2♦ 2N either.
Opps might well bid hearts, which is a complicated film, but at least we're on firmer ground than if it happens after 1♦.
Partner might bid a 2♥ Red Flag denying even a K, in which case quantitative.
Partner might bid 2♠ showing a strong suit of his own, which has to be a major here... in that case I ask him to bid the suit in transfer and then if it is spades we control bid hoping for a grand, if hearts I bid 3NT and see.

[mycroft]

I agree with smerriman (which will not surprise anybody). For exactly his reasons, too.

If I do open 2♣, I will not be treating it as a two-suiter minor hand (how do I show that before I go down?), but as balanced. And I expect partner to put me in 3NT with the ♥K or ♠Q and out, or in 4♥ with QJ9xxx and, hopefully, a singleton (probably in diamonds?)

And yes, I go down a lot, and will a lot more. I'm not afraid of going down; that's the price we pay for some of the games that make. But "if we belong in game, partner won't pass 1♦." Okay, if he has a weak 2♥ response, then they may not run 4 heart tricks and a trick, and enough tens and nines will get me 9 tricks. Otherwise?

[jdiana]

jillybean, on 2025-February-08, 14:32, said:

Which OP is my CHO in America?

CHO = center hand opponent

[thepossum]

 P_Marlowe, on 2025-February-08, 16:26, said:

If you start with 2C, what is your bid after 2D? 2NT, how do you feel, if p uses a xfer to 3H?

It's a problem. I passed a transfer the other day and scored 54% Not great but positive

[pescetom]

 P_Marlowe, on 2025-February-08, 16:26, said:

If you start with 2C, what is your bid after 2D? 2NT, how do you feel, if p uses a xfer to 3H?

Over a 15-17 1NT you feel sick, but you knew it was likely and will have already decided whether to complete the transfer or break (or even pass with a poor 6 card diamonds): usually it's wise to just complete and hope partner has a rebid. Our RA does not forbid agreeing breaks that disclose the singleton (unlike the bizarre NZ regulation) but we play them as "at most 2 card fit" in my deviant partnership.

Here over a 22-23 2NT it's much less of a problem, partner is very unlikely to be so weak that he fails to rebid and if he can rebid hearts or a minor then things get interesting.

[jdiana]

P_Marlowe, on 2025-February-08, 16:26, said:

Hi,

playing with a random, your best bet is to start with 1D, planning to make the gf move 3C,
this showes 54 and gf values.

If you start with 2C, what is your bid after 2D? 2NT, how do you feel, if p uses a xfer to 3H?

With kind regards
Marlowe

We play 2♣-2♦ as game forcing so partner isn't going to transfer me and pass. As JB said, he's going to rebid 3NT with 5 or 4♥ with 6. Hopefully, we can survive either way.

[pescetom]

 jdiana, on 2025-February-09, 08:15, said:

We play 2♣-2♦ as game forcing so partner isn't going to transfer me and pass. As JB said, he's going to rebid 3NT with 5 or 4♥ with 6. Hopefully, we can survive either way.

For us the game force is off after a 2NT rebid, but he almost certainly is going to rebid. And if he rebids hearts then he is showing mild slam interest as with just game strength he would have transferred at 4 level. So quite possibly both the missing keycards, or one and a couple of Queens: more than can survive.

[bluenikki]

♠

pescetom, on 2025-February-08, 13:45, said:

For me this is a clear 2♣ and then 2NT if the opps (CHO included) haven't blasted hearts.
I'm neither a beginner nor a peer of Zia, although I suspect I have better methods over 2♣ than most.

5431 and 4441 make up almost 16% of shapes. A bidding system shouldn't ignore them.

I had a method, but the strong openings didn't come up enough to test it.

Opener's 2♠ rebid artificially showed a hand with no 6-card suit or 5-5, but with some defect for notrump. Hands with a 6+ suit bid 2 under at the 3 level. 5-5 had to find the least evil lie.

Over 2♠, responder bid 2NT with at least 10 cards in 2 suits; otherwise bid 1 under the cheapest suit.

[jillybean]

FWIW, here is the full hand

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