[Cyberyeti]

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here pass is better than 2♣, 3♣ is an adequate hand with decent playing strength in clubs, but not very defensive, doubles from partner are penalties. You won't have a weak NT as you'd have opened it, your club is 4+ cards, 5+ unless 4414 if <15

[mikeh]

I frankly don’t understand anything other than 2C, which describes my offence, my suit, and my lack of defence. Ok, partner has 5 hearts and they’re about to be destroyed in 2H….can’t get there from here.

[Cyberyeti]

mikeh, on 2024-November-21, 14:37, said:

I frankly don’t understand anything other than 2C, which describes my offence, my suit, and my lack of defence. Ok, partner has 5 hearts and they’re about to be destroyed in 2H….can’t get there from here.

2♣ says I don't want to stand a penalty double and I'm ashamed of my opening bid, which I'm not. I have 6 tricks, 3N could easily be making

Edit - we open pretty light, expect partner to have at least a 10 count

[pescetom]

I would have bid 2♣ without that explanation of XX, but then I open nowhere near as light.
Now I tend towards 3♣ to hamper the probable enquiry.

[Cyberyeti]

pescetom, on 2024-November-21, 15:39, said:

I would have bid 2♣ without that explanation of XX, but then I open nowhere near as light.
Now I tend towards 3♣ to hamper the probable enquiry.

There is not a real enquiry situation, the single suited hand is likely to have 2 points at most and not bid again unless they have a REALLY long suit.

[jillybean]

pass, I have a better hand than 2C and want to see how this develops

[mikeh]

Cyberyeti, on 2024-November-21, 14:58, said:

2♣ says I don't want to stand a penalty double and I'm ashamed of my opening bid, which I'm not. I have 6 tricks, 3N could easily be making

Edit - we open pretty light, expect partner to have at least a 10 count

You couldn’t pay me to play that agreement.

[Cyberyeti]

jillybean, on 2024-November-21, 18:43, said:

pass, I have a better hand than 2C and want to see how this develops

2♣(P/C)-P-2♥ all doubles penalty from here on

[nullve]

Cyberyeti, on 2024-November-21, 14:58, said:

2♣ says I don't want to stand a penalty double and I'm ashamed of my opening bid

Literally?

By opening 1♣ you said that your hand belonged to a certain set of hands. If you still think your hand belongs to that set, why are you ashamed when you were just following your system? And if 2♣ signals that your hand doesn't belong to the set, that's a psychic control, which is illegal.

Maybe the 'ashamed of my ___ bid' is just jargon, but I suspect that because it's so common, many now play eg. a 4M rebid over 1M-2N(Jacoby) as a psychic control, showing a hand that was just short of a 1M opening. This has to stop.

[Cyberyeti]

nullve, on 2024-November-22, 04:15, said:

Literally?

By opening 1♣ you said that your hand belonged to a certain set of hands. If you still think your hand belongs to that set, why are you ashamed when you were just following your system? And if 2♣ signals that your hand doesn't belong to the set, that's a psychic control, which is illegal.

Maybe the 'ashamed of my ___ bid' is just jargon, but I suspect that because it's so common, many now play eg. a 4M rebid over 1M-2N(Jacoby) as a psychic control, showing a hand that was just short of a 1M opening. This has to stop.

Yeah, it's more "most people wouldn't have opened this but systemic for us" say KJx, xxx, x, AQxxxx.

This hand was actually a directorial, the redouble wasn't alerted and that changes the meanings of my bids. Maybe I should have worked out at the table that XX has to be weak, but I didn't, and even if I had, it's not uncommon to psyche a strong NT overcall opposite a passed partner (I got the vul wrong, we were vul they weren't).

[akwoo]

I think the problem here is that there is an entire approach to bidding in competition coming from Acol that is entirely foreign to many of us, and we just can't wrap our heads around that mindset well enough to actually understand your agreements and how to bid within them.

Playing a Kaplan-Sheinwold derived system, I would not imagine that pass could show anything other than 15+ balanced (with maybe some semibalanced 13s and 14s that we judged not to open 1N for some reason) or some 15+ unbalanced defensively oriented hand, and any minimum unbalanced hand would be required to bid here. Then again, in such a system I wouldn't open 1C on any 11 count other than AKxxxx and a side ace.