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3 card support, 17hcp for partner's 1H

#1 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted Today, 06:05



Playing vanilla standard, not 2/1
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
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#2 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted Today, 06:06

wtp 1
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#3 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted Today, 06:41

No problem, yet

"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
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#4 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted Today, 06:43

View Postjillybean, on 2024-November-01, 06:41, said:

No problem, yet


3 4SF GF, you need to know whether 3 or 3 is your "nothing else to say" bid
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#5 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted Today, 06:45

4SGF


This is where I stall. Partner has shown a minimum hand, it's probably a 12-14nt hand.
We have an 8 card heart fit but where is our source of tricks?
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
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#6 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted Today, 06:55

View Postjillybean, on 2024-November-01, 06:45, said:

4SGF


This is where I stall. Partner has shown a minimum hand, we have an 8 card heart fit but where is our source of tricks?


Is that the "nothing else to say" bid or would that have been 3 ?

If partner has KQ and anaemic suits of his own, I suspect I'm going off at the 5 level playing N/B stuff, I have a chance playing my methods.
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#7 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted Today, 07:19

This is N/B territory, 3 could be 5-5 in the reds?

Without any more methods, you signoff in 4H?
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
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#8 User is offline   Stephen Tu 

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Posted Today, 07:53

This kind of issue is why a fair number of expert players have moved to solutions of either:

a: respond 2c to begin with (opener will rebid 2s with 4 so you won't miss fit there)

b: use 2s as 4th suit F instead of 3c (use 1h-2s weak jump shift with less than invite & 6+ spades, more European style wjs than American ultra-weak)
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#9 User is offline   mike777 

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Posted Today, 08:15

As an intermediate player
I would have started with 2c
To hopefully simplify auction.
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#10 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted Today, 08:33

View PostStephen Tu, on 2024-November-01, 07:53, said:

This kind of issue is why a fair number of expert players have moved to solutions of either:

a: respond 2c to begin with (opener will rebid 2s with 4 so you won't miss fit there)

b: use 2s as 4th suit F instead of 3c (use 1h-2s weak jump shift with less than invite & 6+ spades, more European style wjs than American ultra-weak)


a: Opener will not rebid 2 with 4, you're not playing 2/1 so that's a full reverse

b: we play 2s as constructive NF, so better than a weak jump, but NF
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#11 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted Today, 08:33

View Postmike777, on 2024-November-01, 08:15, said:

As an intermediate player
I would have started with 2c
To hopefully simplify auction.

You are an advanced intermediate :) I am beginning to enjoy 2C* gf any but partner needs to be on the same wavelength.

This is a hand from the game I co-direct and get together with some players before the next game to talk about these boards.
I know, I should NOT be trying to guide beginners to become better bidders.

This is how I suspect the auction went:

2-Q


6= double dummy

Those who did bid the slam were 6 -2 or 6 -1
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
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#12 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted Today, 08:36

View Postjillybean, on 2024-November-01, 07:19, said:

This is N/B territory, 3 could be 5-5 in the reds?

Without any more methods, you signoff in 4H?


It could be, but the question is do you want to bundle nothing more to say in with 5-5s or 6-4s. Different people teach this different ways.

As I said, without methods I probably investigate slam and take the consequences.

4 kickback (3 would be forcing so 4 is not needed for hands with spades) and I pass 4N if partner has zero would be my normal action.

It's not difficult to make if the first heart play is to the K, once you've done that, it all falls into place.
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#13 User is offline   mw64ahw 

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Posted Today, 08:44

View PostStephen Tu, on 2024-November-01, 07:53, said:

This kind of issue is why a fair number of expert players have moved to solutions of either:

a: respond 2c to begin with (opener will rebid 2s with 4 so you won't miss fit there)

b: use 2s as 4th suit F instead of 3c (use 1h-2s weak jump shift with less than invite & 6+ spades, more European style wjs than American ultra-weak)

c) 2 as 3/4 constructive, GFish 3, 5+ or both
opener will break the transfer with a game try in thus setting up a potential slam try. remain resolvable.
.
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#14 User is online   jillybean 

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Posted Today, 08:44

View PostCyberyeti, on 2024-November-01, 08:36, said:

It could be, but the question is do you want to bundle nothing more to say in with 5-5s or 6-4s. Different people teach this different ways.

As I said, without methods I probably investigate slam and take the consequences.

4 kickback (3 would be forcing so 4 is not needed for hands with spades) and I pass 4N if partner has zero would be my normal action.

Yep, I don't think we are there yet. Bidding is generally "natural".
"And no matter what methods you play, it is essential, for anyone aspiring to learn to be a good player, to learn the importance of bidding shape properly." MikeH
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#15 User is offline   Gerardo 

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Posted Today, 09:45

Direct 2 is not GF, but what are:
1 2 2 2 ?
1 2 2 3 ?

#16 User is online   Cyberyeti 

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Posted Today, 11:07

View PostGerardo, on 2024-November-01, 09:45, said:

Direct 2 is not GF, but what are:
1 2 2 2 ?
1 2 2 3 ?


also 1-2-2-2-3-3
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