[jillybean]

---

Regular 2/1 , 15-17nt, 1♦ overcall could be 6+ hcp

[shyams]

Partner should have a genuine heart suit. I'd expect at least 5-cards ♥ suit (maybe 6-card) and 0-2 cards in ♦.

I raise to 2♥.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

you have a fit you raise.
This makes it harder for them to enter the auction, although in the specific seq. the most dangerous opp. passed,
so you could try pass, hoping it goess all pass.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[pescetom]

Someone is messing around yet again, it's tempting to join in and bid 1S.

But I bid 2H and see what is going on.

[paulg]

This doesn't look a tough problem to me

When responding to an overcall, which although you say it is 6+HCP could presumably be up to around 17 HCP if the hand is too flawed for a double, partner is going to bid almost as if you had opened the bidding. Clearly there is no need to respond to an overcall but just bid sensibly.

Although you'd always like five hearts to respond 1♥, it would be normal to respond 1♥ with 4-4 in the majors and 8+ points in order to find a major fit. Just imagine that the overcaller had a 4-1-5-3 16 count?

In this case, you have a pass on values but a pre-emptive raise to 2♥. I'd refuse any subsequent game try!

[pescetom]

That seems reasonable, but is not how our players are taught to advance without fit in intervenor's suit or a 5+ card suit of their own.
I guess there may be another difference in my expectations too, maybe East can not respond 1S with 4 cards after interference? If he can, then the spades still fail to add up.

[jillybean]

Tough problems belong in the Expert forum, this is only I/A

So far, so good. We've decided to compete, 2♥ seems normal but pass is an option (for the whimpy)

---

[shyams]

3♥.

If partner is balanced, max passing values, ♣ stopper(s) (+ something in ♠ as well?), it still doesn't help. I still cannot see anything that makes our hand so special as to bid or try for game.

We may already be too high in 3♥.

[mycroft]

Yeah, so this is why I passed :-). When they compete, I can come back in and show the "partner, I'm refusing any game invitation opposite your passed hand". When, as in this case, we have them outgunned because partner has the near-opening instead of the 6-count, we might even buy it for 1♥.

Yes, I am scared they're going to find spades. But both opponents have passed through 1♥. The lack of a 1♠ response, or a 1♠ opening (or even double of 1♥), paints a really strong picture. Either they have spades and partner's on a max and it's 20-20ish, or they don't have spades and don't yet know there's a fit anywhere. 2♥ will light a big lamp for them in that latter case, though.

A lot of my decision making here depends on my opponents. Are they the "they don't get to play 2 of a fit" kind? Maybe "pretending" to have only 3 by passing will be a better preemptive call than raising. Are they the "won't be outbid" type? Maybe there's only 16 total trumps on the hand and we've pushed them to -100 (or even -200). Hpw well do they defend? Are we likely to survive 3♥? Are they afraid of me? Did we just have a perfect, tricky defence on the last board and they're worried we'll do it again?

Having bid 2♥, now I know what's going on. And I bid 3♥ like shyams and hope "operation: push the opponents to the 3 level" hasn't been a success, this time by CHO, also like shyams.

(having said that, in many of my partnerships, 2NT is shortness in spades. Which is "yeah, partner forgot" territory. But that's another thread, isn't it?)

[mw64ahw]

2N is a game try of sorts (I play it as asking for trump honours ) so partner must be strong enough to make the 3-level if overcaller is minimum. My response is 3♦ showing A/K♥ and enough strength for game if it suits.

Playing jump overcalls this is a simple 2♦ bid showing with 5♦4♥ with partner being able to try for game with an opening strength hand.

Edit: Given the initial passed hand I can only make the sequence work if advancer has a highly distributional hand, but failed to open given some hcp count.

[mikeh]

You ask: what is partner doing? To which my answer would be: screwing up.

The 2H raise is completely normal. Pass 1H and you’re inviting a balancing 1S even though responder is pretty much assured of being weak and I’d not want to be forced to compete to 3H. 2H does not show values…it just shows a fit. With values to invite game, one bids 2C or 3H, depending on hand type.

So partner ought to know that we are not strong enough to bid game over his presumed invitational 2N. We’re he an unpassed hand, he’d be showing an opening hand but obviously he can’t have that. I know that players sometimes miss a card when bidding so maybe he’s discovered an ace or king, but one (imo) ought never to infer that.

Thus imo he or she has lost his or her mind, and is displaying a penchant for minus scores. I bid 3H and hope everything works, though I’m suspicious of the auction.

In particular, despite my earlier pressed concerns about spades, I suspect responder to have diamonds well controlled but to have the wrong hand to have bid earlier…say 3=1=5=4 with 6-9 hcp or so. That adds up if we place opener with fewer than notrump hcp and partner with 10-11.

[DavidKok]

I do not think 2NT exists here. Maybe partner has 11 balanced or semibalanced with five hearts, and is combining law protection with an invite? Even with that hand I think it makes sense to pass 2♥, but it is the most sensible interpretation of this sequence I can think of. Something like a 4=5=2=2 10-count would do it too.

At the risk of being way off - it is a pretty common theme for people to pass a near-opening hand and then overbid on later rounds to catch up (and actually people do the same with imperfect preempts). If you play sound openings, beware that you're behind especially on the hands that others might have opened. This time we, North, would not even have an invite if partner opened the bidding, so we would never get too high in that case.

[P_Marlowe]

3H, what else? If game makes, p can bid it on its own.
It makes a minor difference, if 1H showed 4+ or 5+.
If it only showes 4+, the bid is usually played as forcing, which is a bit ...
given that p announced that he was too weak to open.
But than again, if you play it in a different position, you may also play it in
the given seq., even if it is sub opt.


Obviously we would love to see partners hand, the raise did not promise
add. values, so he should hold something surprising for having passed
in the 1st place and now finding an invite.

I suppose hands exist, that meet the above description, but I have always
troule constructing normal hands, so I am not trying to construct surprise
hands.

[jillybean]

As requested

---

[pescetom]

As I said at the beginning, someone (South) is messing around again.
He failed to open, was lucky enough to find a double fit and still decided to blow it with only certainty of 18(17)+ HCP on the line with one A and a Kxx stop, then blamed partner for the consequences of a logical minimal rebid?

[mw64ahw]

2N is a game try of sorts (I play it as asking for trump honours ) so partner must be strong enough to make the 3-level if overcaller is minimum. My response is 3♦ showing A/K♥ and enough strength for game if it suits.

Playing jump overcalls this is a simple 2♦ bid showing with 5♦4♥ with partner being able to try for game with an opening strength hand.

Edit: Given the initial Pass I assume advancer has some distributional hand with insufficient opening values say 3505.

[mikeh]

Advancer has a perfectly normal 2C cuebid. That shows 3+ diamonds and a maximum passed hand. Overcaller is expected to bid 2M with a full opening hand and 4 cards in the major so there’s no risk of missing a major suit game. The worst that would happen is that we play in 2D in an 8 or 9 card fit while missing a 4-4 major. Even at mps, that’s not necessarily a disaster…with about 29 hcp combined…maybe 23-24 on a bad day, and a 4-4 fit, 2D may make 3 while 2M makes 2….and I’ve seen 130 beat 110. More importantly, chasing 4-4 fits that are only ‘possible’ while ignoring a known 5-3 or 6-3 minor fit, on partscore deals, is losing bridge.

I said south had lost his or her mind…which was a bit hyperbolic….I think it’s likely more accurate to say that south is a bad bridge player….an entity far more common than the much rarer good bridge player.

[jillybean]

I do appreciate you not mincing your words. Ooof
This is what I need to hear. I was so fixated on my hand and seeing if we had a major fit, I missed the obvious.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I dont mind 1H, if the partnership agreed to play the bid as forcing and
as 4+, but after the 1H bid, you have told your story.

My guess is, that the 1H bidder feared, it was supposed to be a 5 carder
and tried to safe the day by bidding 2NT.

Try to discuss the meaning of 1H, decide what it showes.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[jillybean]

I had a good discussion with my partner regarding this hand. While he didn't mind 1♥, he agrees 2♣ is best.
It wasn't a -1100 but let's hope I remember this.