[Cyberyeti]

This hand turned up today, it seems partner and I evaluated it differently to the rest of the room

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The 2♦ overcall was a good single suited hand with diamonds or 5m/5M

Your choices:

2♥ to play
3♥ inv
3♥ GF (via reverse leb)

[mw64ahw]

With 10hcp opposite a minimum and no 8-card fit you may end up in 3NT going down so not a GF.

The hand stands to make 4♥ opposite a non-poor minimum with support so 3♥ inv is reasonable.

Too strong for 2♥ although I would expect some pairs to make this bid depending on the field.

[jillybean]

 Cyberyeti, on 2024-August-22, 12:41, said:

The 2♦ overcall was a good single suited hand with diamonds or 5m/5M

Is this legal?

2H is letting the ops derail our auction
3H invitational seems right but I fear we could miss game.

This style overcall can be quite destructive, I'd like to see what they have for their 5m/5M

[akwoo]

I hate 3♥ invitational as a system. If partner has a minimum with 2 hearts, you're already too high.

I'm tempted to treat this a game force pretty much just for that reason (except vul at MPs, where the difference between -100 and -200 might actually be significant)

Certainly this is closer to a game force than a bid of 2♥ to play.

[Cyberyeti]

 akwoo, on 2024-August-22, 14:40, said:

I hate 3♥ invitational as a system. If partner has a minimum with 2 hearts, you're already too high.

I'm tempted to treat this a game force pretty much just for that reason (except vul at MPs, where the difference between -100 and -200 might actually be significant)

Certainly this is closer to a game force than a bid of 2♥ to play.

Matchpoints

[Cyberyeti]

 jillybean, on 2024-August-22, 14:27, said:

Is this legal?

2H is letting the ops derail our auction
3H invitational seems right but I fear we could miss game.

This style overcall can be quite destructive, I'd like to see what they have for their 5m/5M

You can play anything you like to defend a natural 1N here, the 5-5 I believe doesn't have to be very good

[mikeh]

Not happy with the methods. I’d like to be able to bid 3D, showing 5+ hearts and invitational or better values. Not only does this involve partner but it also may protect us from getting tapped right away.

Btw, we treat this kind of overcall as showing the one-suiter, in terms of our transfer lebensohl options.

Forced to (possibly) wrongside the contract and expecting that we have 23 hcp and an 8 card fit (he will have 12 hcp more often than 13, and 13 more often than 14, and will have 2-5 hearts, but 2more often than 4 or 5), I think the technically correct choice at mps is 2H. There’s some chance, depending mostly on who the opps are, that I’ll get another chance or even that, if LHO bids, partner can raise.

I’d always invite at imps but at mps we want to go plus more than we want to bid thin games.

I’d never gf at any form of scoring

Btw, all regular partnerships should have an agreement on what opener needs in order to accept an invite. I play that opener should accept unless he has a reason not to…..the so-called invite heavy approach (which is demonstrably better in the long run than the opposite strategy). On this hand, that makes inviting unattractive. If you play that opener rejects invites unless he has reason to accept (the invite light approach) then this is a safer invitation. I think it’s the first time I’ve ever seen an auction in which invite light seems better than does invite heavy.

Now, in most club games, I don’t respect most of my opps (in bridge terms) so f my partner is a good declarer, I might invite even with these sub-optimum methods.but I’d know I was operating.

[Tramticket]

I evaluate this as a good 11. Without the interference, I would transfer to hearts then bid 2NT.

The interference has made it a little awkward, but it certainly hasn't downgraded my hand. Assuming that 3H only promises a five-card suit, I go with that.

Will partner open 1NT with a balanced hand with five spades?

[Cyberyeti]

 Tramticket, on 2024-August-23, 00:50, said:

I evaluate this as a good 11. Without the interference, I would transfer to hearts then bid 2NT.

The interference has made it a little awkward, but it certainly hasn't downgraded my hand. Assuming that 3H only promises a five-card suit, I go with that.

Will partner open 1NT with a balanced hand with five spades?

Yes he will open 1N with 5♠(332).

You also raise an interesting point, how would Mike and others bit this unopposed at MPs ? 1N-2♦-2♥ now what, P, 2N, 3♣ ?

I felt the probable strong diamonds (although could easily be 5♠/5♦) made my hand better in practicality so I was fully worth 3♥. A dangerous club lead was not likely to happen, and when it didn't happen at trick 1, might well never be able to happen, and the ♠A and ♥KQ were odds on to be right if partner didn't have them.

[shugart24]

 jillybean, on 2024-August-22, 14:27, said:

Is this legal?

2H is letting the ops derail our auction
3H invitational seems right but I fear we could miss game.

This style overcall can be quite destructive, I'd like to see what they have for their 5m/5M

This defense is part of the Hello system defense over 1NT. I hope it is legal because it's what I use and have used for years in the past

[shugart24]

 jillybean, on 2024-August-22, 14:27, said:

Is this legal?

2H is letting the ops derail our auction
3H invitational seems right but I fear we could miss game.

This style overcall can be quite destructive, I'd like to see what they have for their 5m/5M

This defense is part of the Hello system defense over 1NT. I hope it is legal because it's what I use and have used for years in the past

[mw64ahw]

 shugart24, on 2024-August-23, 13:45, said:

This defense is part of the Hello system defense over 1NT. I hope it is legal because it's what I use and have used for years in the past

Not so
2♣ is ♦ or 5M5m
2♦ is ♥ in 2nd seat or both Majors in 4th seat.

[jillybean]

Let's see the full hand.

[Cyberyeti]

 jillybean, on 2024-August-23, 14:57, said:

Let's see the full hand.

Waiting for people to say what they'd bid unopposed first over 1N-2♦from you not RHO-2♥ from partner

[jillybean]

Sorry I missed that, perhaps others did too.

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Do the prospects improve without the interference? I think I would bid the same, invitational
Will partner super accept with 4 and 14?

[akwoo]

If I can invite with 2N, I definitely do, knowing full well partner might bid 3N with a half decent 13 hcp and 2 hearts. I'm reasonably happy about my chances opposite, say, xxxx Qx AQx AJxx - of course there are worse 13s where partner will bid 3N, but also better ones, and partner can easily have the right hand for 4H.

[mw64ahw]

I invite via 2♠ as 2N will show 5♥4♠ GI to right side. This then allows the option to play in 3♥ or 2N if opener declines.

[Cyberyeti]

 mw64ahw, on 2024-August-24, 00:49, said:

I invite via 2♠ as 2N will show 5♥4♠ GI to right side. This then allows the option to play in 3♥ or 2N if opener declines.

This is a weak NT auction, there is no "right side" the two hands will be of about ewqual strength so almost no weak NT players play this sort of system.

2♠ would be 4-5

Opener breaks the transfer with most hands with 4 card support btw.

[mw64ahw]

 Cyberyeti, on 2024-August-24, 03:19, said:

This is a weak NT auction, there is no "right side" the two hands will be of about ewqual strength so almost no weak NT players play this sort of system.

2♠ would be 4-5

Opener breaks the transfer with most hands with 4 card support btw.

Yep forgot it was a Weak NT, so would be unlikely to play here unless by agreement, but I have no regular Weak NT partners. Having said that I think it is still a good option to give the flexibility.

[DavidKok]

At IMPs I am forcing to game (though my methods would start with an invitational(+) transfer at the 3-level - I've played systems where 3♦ is the transfer and ones where 3♣ is the transfer - so I could decide to change my mind and stop in 3♥ if partner shows a minimum. But I won't). In general I think inviting opposite a 1NT opening is not nearly as good as is often believed, and this hand is close enough to a maximum invite that I think it is better to upgrade and conceal opener's hand somewhat.

This is an unpleasant problem in a WNT system. The equivalent problem in SNT systems deals with markedly weaker hands, which I find easier to evaluate. Or maybe that's just my limited experience with WNT systems - I've only played one seriously for half a year.