[gprentice]

Is opening 2NT (20-22) ok on this hand. Should west bid 3NT straight off or 3C puppet stayman asking for a 5 card major.

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[AL78]

gprentice, on 2026-January-15, 17:50, said:

Is opening 2NT (20-22) ok on this hand. Should west bid 3NT straight off or 3C puppet stayman asking for a 5 card major.

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It is ok but I am not immediately seeing why it is best. It is an ace heavy hand which leans more towards a suit contract. I would open 1♥ planning to reverse or strong jump shift into spades if partner can find a (non-major) bid.

[mike777]

gprentice, on 2026-January-15, 17:50, said:

Is opening 2NT (20-22) ok on this hand. Should west bid 3NT straight off or 3C puppet stayman asking for a 5 card major.

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I strongly dislike it.

[gprentice]

AL78, on 2026-January-15, 18:00, said:

It is ok but I am not immediately seeing why it is best. It is an ace heavy hand which leans more towards a suit contract. I would open 1♥ planning to reverse or strong jump shift into spades if partner can find a (non-major) bid.

Playing puppet stayman, opening 2NT guarantees to find a major suit fit if it exists, so you do not miss out on a suit contract. Strong jump shift into spades shows 18 points, this hand is 21, so partner is likely to pass with 5 points and worse, the weak hand has to bid 3NT.

[akwoo]

As much as I dislike opening 2N on the East hand, I think it's better than all the other alternatives. I would not use puppet with the West hand.

And indeed 3N is the best contract.

[bluenikki]

gprentice, on 2026-January-15, 19:49, said:

Playing puppet stayman, opening 2NT guarantees to find a major suit fit if it exists, so you do not miss out on a suit contract. Strong jump shift into spades shows 18 points, this hand is 21, so partner is likely to pass with 5 points and worse, the weak hand has to bid 3NT.

Opener's jump shift might have only 18 in high cards (though I despise that) but it does not repeat not deny having much more.

Regardless, if responder chooses to pass it, they bear the sole responsibility for a bad result.

[mw64ahw]

I'd not open 2N as you are unable to recover both Majors playing Puppet. Playing Stayman possibly.


I'd open 1♥ and would reach game on this one, but not via a strong jump shift.

[gprentice]

mw64ahw, on 2026-January-15, 22:21, said:

I'd not open 2N as you are unable to recover both Majors playing Puppet. Playing Stayman possibly.


I'd open 1♥ and would reach game on this one, but not via a strong jump shift.

What do you mean "unable to recover both majors playing puppet". We played it in 3NT. If it weren't for the 4333 shape my partner would have bid 3C looking for a 5 card major so we would play in 4H - I didn't think about the 4333 shape possibility. If I open 1H we get to 4 hearts also, playing 2 over 1. Is it standard to bid 3NT if partner shows a balanced hand and you have 4333 shape when you also have a major fit? Also, we don't play gazilli yet.

[DavidKok]

 gprentice, on 2026-January-15, 19:49, said:

Playing puppet stayman, opening 2NT guarantees to find a major suit fit if it exists, so you do not miss out on a suit contract.

This is false. Giving responder 4 spades and 0-2 hearts the normal Puppet auction is 2NT-3♣; 3♥-3NT; P, missing the spade fit. Opener cannot pull because responder might have been looking for a 5-3 spade fit only. You could play that 3♠ over 3♥ asks for 4 spades alongside 5 hearts, but I've never seen people play this.

 gprentice, on 2026-January-15, 19:49, said:

Strong jump shift into spades shows 18 points, this hand is 21, so partner is likely to pass with 5 points and worse, the weak hand has to bid 3NT.

With hearts your strong shift is a reverse, not a jump. Regardless I would not assign a high card point minimum of 18 to it, but more importantly just because it promises 18+ does not mean it denies 21.


On this hand I don't mind a 2NT opening though I'd prefer 1♥. Be careful with the arguments though.

[gprentice]

DavidKok, on 2026-January-16, 00:43, said:

This is false. Giving responder 4 spades and 0-2 hearts the normal Puppet auction is 2NT-3♣; 3♥-3NT; P, missing the spade fit. Opener cannot pull because responder might have been looking for a 5-3 spade fit only. You could play that 3♠ over 3♥ asks for 4 spades alongside 5 hearts, but I've never seen people play this.

With hearts your strong shift is a reverse, not a jump. Regardless I would not assign a high card point minimum of 18 to it, but more importantly just because it promises 18+ does not mean it denies 21.


On this hand I don't mind a 2NT opening though I'd prefer 1♥. Be careful with the arguments though.

ah, I see. I didn't realise you could miss a spade fit.
What do you mean about the reverse.
1H - 2C
3S - jump shift 18+ ???

1H - 1NT
2S - reverse 16+ ??

1H - 2C
2S - reverse 16+ (oops, forgot 2 over 1 2C is game force, so pretend it's std american then)

1H 1S pass pass
partner passes - now what??

[DavidKok]

Even in standard American, the sequence 1♥-(P)-2♣-(P); 2♠ is forcing. There is no need to jump with extra strength.

If you are comfortable opening 2NT, you could choose to rebid 2NT on the competitive sequence after opening 1♥ instead. Normally this shows around 20-21 with 5(+)♥ and no second suit outside spades. From negative inference this must be 4=5=x=y. Saving space on the first round means you have more options on the second.

[gprentice]

DavidKok, on 2026-January-16, 01:08, said:

Even in standard American, the sequence 1♥-(P)-2♣-(P); 2♠ is forcing. There is no need to jump with extra strength.

If you are comfortable opening 2NT, you could choose to rebid 2NT on the competitive sequence after opening 1♥ instead. Normally this shows around 20-21 with 5(+)♥ and no second suit outside spades. From negative inference this must be 4=5=x=y. Saving space on the first round means you have more options on the second.

ah, thanks - 4-5-x-y from negative inference ?? - took me a while to figure that out - if it was only 3 spades you would be balanced or have a second suit. I probably wouldn't be brave enough to bid 2NT after the spade overcall though, even if I thought to (which is unlikely), though it's not much different to opening 2NT.

[mw64ahw]

I have 2 possible auctions on this one playing Kaplan Inversion and 2/1 game invitational where 1♠ and 1N (5+♠ weak) are reversed.
1♥-1♠ forcing
2♦ 45xx-2♥ pref.
3N
or
1♥-2♦ 3♥ pre-emptive or 5♦ GI
2♠ SB GT-3N/4♥

The 1st auction is preferable given partners 6hcp & 1/2 quick trick

[AL78]

gprentice, on 2026-January-16, 00:59, said:

ah, I see. I didn't realise you could miss a spade fit.
What do you mean about the reverse.
1H - 2C
3S - jump shift 18+ ???

1H - 1NT
2S - reverse 16+ ??

1H - 2C
2S - reverse 16+ (oops, forgot 2 over 1 2C is game force, so pretend it's std american then)

1H 1S pass pass
partner passes - now what??

Forget I mentioned strong jump shift, it doesn't apply here because responder can only respond at the one level in spades or NT. When I say reverse, I mean bidding the spades on the second round at the cheapest level. After a 2/1 response, a reverse forces to game.

On the last auction, I bid 1NT. If partner cannot dredge a bid with no space consumed by the opponents, I am not worried about missing game. If you are playing in 3NT, you often need a bit more than the combined 24-25 HCP if one hand is very weak as you will likely have communication issues.

Although this hand is heavy for a 1♥ opening, it still needs something from partner to make game, so if partner cannot find a bid whether or not the opponents overcall, the chances of missing game is low.

[Huibertus]

gprentice, on 2026-January-15, 17:50, said:

Is opening 2NT (20-22) ok on this hand. Should west bid 3NT straight off or 3C puppet stayman asking for a 5 card major.

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Totally fine. It leads to the best contract on this hand (3NT) sharing the least amount of information with the opponents, as of course partner will not be bothered about 5 cards major on this hand.

[Cyberyeti]

Opening 2N is bad for slam hands and not great for game.

Picture Kx, K10xx, Kxx, xxxx, partner opens 2N, are you really investigating slam ? Yes even when partner shows 5 hearts, you don't know he has 4 aces at this point, and I'm not convinced you have 5 level safety.

I would open 1♥ without thinking, but for reasons unrelated to the logic of the OP. We play good 19-21 2N, and this is too good.

[Huibertus]

gprentice, on 2026-January-15, 17:50, said:

Is opening 2NT (20-22) ok on this hand. Should west bid 3NT straight off or 3C puppet stayman asking for a 5 card major.

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Totally fine. It leads to the best contract on this hand (3NT) sharing the least amount of information with the opponents, as of course partner will not be bothered about 5 cards major on this hand.