[Cyberyeti]

---

pass or 4♠, and do you think it's close ?

There was a certain amount of debate about this one in the car on the way back. Both choices were made at different tables.

[DavidKok]

4♠ and it is not close, but (sorry) if my partner plays the double as penalty-oriented, or is liable to double with something like ♥KQ(T)x, that might tilt the odds.
Sorry to be blunt but I find commenting on these threads somewhat unpleasant. I have to guess partner's style and/or the partnership agreements, and either I'm bashing on some player (quite likely the partner of the poster) or I'm getting dragged into a bridge discussion that should be settled within the partnership.

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2024-May-12, 10:37, said:

4♠ and it is not close, but (sorry) if my partner plays the double as penalty-oriented, or is liable to double with something like ♥KQ(T)x, that might tilt the odds.
Sorry to be blunt but I find commenting on these threads somewhat unpleasant. I have to guess partner's style and/or the partnership agreements, and either I'm bashing on some player (quite likely the partner of the poster) or I'm getting dragged into a bridge discussion that should be settled within the partnership.

Double is for takeout, but what do you do with a square 19 count ? even AQx, Kx, KQxx, KQxx for example, and then you find you have 3 trump losers and are losing 500.

I did bid 4♠ but didn't 100% like it

[mycroft]

I'd rather be 500 than 590. Frankly, 690 is in the picture. Sure, partner is more likely to have some hearts and not know what else to do, but are we playing in a game where 3 hearts and some cards will auto-5♥ over the double? Many won't.

My own personal belief agrees with "the Emperor": "When in doubt, take out takeout doubles."

It also matches with my flip-a-coin rule: "When in doubt, make the call that doesn't lose the post-mortem". Not that there *should be* a post-mortem, but I'd rather have "done the right thing" and been wrong than "do the wrong thing" and be wrong.

[Cyberyeti]

mycroft, on 2024-May-12, 13:16, said:

I'd rather be 500 than 590. Frankly, 690 is in the picture. Sure, partner is more likely to have some hearts and not know what else to do, but are we playing in a game where 3 hearts and some cards will auto-5♥ over the double? Many won't.

My own personal belief agrees with "the Emperor": "When in doubt, take out takeout doubles."

It also matches with my flip-a-coin rule: "When in doubt, make the call that doesn't lose the post-mortem". Not that there *should be* a post-mortem, but I'd rather have "done the right thing" and been wrong than "do the wrong thing" and be wrong.

You are playing in a game with some really good players and some less good ones. Basically one of 4 regional finals where the county champion club teams from 10 counties qualify 2 for an 8 team national final (we were 3rd= a long way off second).

On the actual hand it doesn't make a lot of difference, but it might do.

[Douglas43]

It's always close and I'm often wrong but I've got 5 cards in spades (never mind the quality feel the width), so 4♠ for me

[jillybean]

Is this a BBO game or a real game?

BBO - anything could be "right", otherwise 4♠wtp
Let's see partners hand.

[Cyberyeti]

jillybean, on 2024-May-15, 08:56, said:

Is this a BBO game or a real game?

BBO - anything could be "right", otherwise 4[spades wtp
Let's see partners hand.

A real game, decent standard.

Partner's hand is AJxx, AK, KQxx, Kxx 4[spades] loses 2 trumps and ♦A which we were fortunate was stiff, otherwise a singleton diamond lead takes it off with a ruff with the singleton trump. Providing the defence is careful, as our opps were at the other table you get 500 out of 4♥x, so we picked up 3 IMPs.

My question is what you do with the same hand for doubler with a spade less and a club or heart more ?

[helene_t]

Cyberyeti, on 2024-May-15, 10:26, said:

My question is what you do with the same hand for doubler with a spade less and a club or heart more ?

With a club more it's still a fine double.

With a heart more it's more difficult. We play 4NT as natural over 4m, but over 4♥ it would show minors. So it's double or pass. I double but I am not sure what is percentage.

[DavidKok]

With a heart more I would pass. With a club more it's close but I'd probably double.

[mikeh]

There’s a reason a 4H preempt is often described as a transfer to 4S.

I accept that it’s a close decision but I think pulling is demonstrably the best long run option.

Either approach…almost always bidding or usually passing (when weak)…can pay off on any given hand but one important consideration is that pulling never leads to a double game swing, which passing can do. On other hands, one of the major suit games takes 9 tricks, the other 10…again, bidding wins no matter which side has the makable game.

Maybe be a small spade into any other suit and I’d pass. The shorter my spades, the less offence I have and the greater the chance of a defensive spade trick or two.

[Douglas43]

If only one game is making, it more or less evens out. If they are both making I gain a lot by bidding. If neither is making I gain by passing (but not as much as by bidding when they both make). So I lean towards bidding unless my hand is really flat.