[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

yesterday evening we played the next round in the German Cup competition, ... and we made it.
The following hand came up, followed by a 2nd I will give, after finishing this one, but in
the same thread.

The opponents play Blue Club, married couple, both members of the German squad, (Open / Woman),
you may be able to guess the names.

All vul. in 4th you pick up

♠AKQ
♥JT
♦AKQT9xxx

The auction

(Pass) - Pass - (2C (1)) - ??? (2)

(1) 5+ clubs, 10-15, 4 cards major possible, but rarely
(2) 3C would be Michaels (both Majors), 4D would be Leaping Michaels

As always I am more interested in your thoughts than you actual actions.


With kind regards
Marlowe

[mw64ahw]

You can count 11 tricks bar some poor break in ♦ so you want to make sure that you end in game. X feels like a good start

[jillybean]

Congratulations, it must be great to play against Daniela & Klaus.

I'm of course thinking of a diamond slam. I have to start with X

[Cyberyeti]

 mw64ahw, on 2024-May-01, 07:02, said:

You can count 11 tricks bar some poor break in ♦ so you want to make sure that you end in game. X feels like a good start

Unfortunate if you now play in 2♣x

[P_Marlowe]

 jillybean, on 2024-May-01, 07:50, said:

Congratulations, it must be great to play against Daniela & Klaus.

I'm of course thinking of a diamond slam. I have to start with X

Daniela & Klaus were married once, they no longer are, but good try, next try.
We played against those two 15+ years ago, in the first half we got close,
but got squashed in the 2nd.
Daniela & Klaus are both members of the current Open Team.

[mw64ahw]

 Cyberyeti, on 2024-May-01, 07:56, said:

Unfortunate if you now play in 2♣x

Indeed although you still have a few quick tricks that can produce a positive

[jillybean]

 Cyberyeti, on 2024-May-01, 07:56, said:

Unfortunate if you now play in 2♣x

I seriously doubt that 2♣(X) swish would happen at this level of the game, in this auction.

---

IS 2nt leb here?

[P_Marlowe]

 jillybean, on 2024-May-01, 09:42, said:

I seriously doubt that 2♣(X) swish would happen at this level of the game, in this auction.

---

IS 2nt leb here?

Please keep in mind, they were playing a strong club system, but make it a 2D / 2H / 2S opening.

The 2NT is from a passed hand, so it is doubtful that Lebensohl will be useful.
But if the 2D opening would be in first or 2nd position, 2NT could be Lebensohl
(or what ever you call it) to allow to differentiate between various diamond raises,
an alternative would be xfer.

A natural 2NT could either pass or make a strength showing XX.

[DavidKok]

 jillybean, on 2024-May-01, 09:42, said:

---

IS 2nt leb here?

I suspect the auction wasn't as presented. Is there a 'pass' missing?
Either way you should ask yourself which hand type struggles to make any other bid. The purpose of all bids, in particular conventions, is to solve problems with the hands that cannot be shown through other means. A bid for every hand, not a hand for every bid. What hand types would be unable to pass or bid 2♦, 2♥, 2♠, 3♦, 3♥, 3♠ or 3NT?

[mw64ahw]

3352 11hcp?

[mikeh]

I think our best chance is that we start with double and get (very) lucky in eliciting a heart bid from partner. Now we haul out exclusion, passing a 0 keycard 5D response and giving partner probably the best dummy he’s ever seen in 5D. If he has one keycard, we’re committed to slam and have to hope that partner doesn’t think that a 6D bid over his 5H response to exclusion is forward going in hearts. Are you sure he’d pass with say xxx Kxxxx x Jxxx? Might he not think you’ve got something like AKx AQxx AKxxxx void? Looking for grand in hearts if you hold either the diamond queen or xx plus an extra heart?

I’d be terrified. I don’t particularly care which view of that exclusion auction ‘ought’ to be ‘right’. Partners, even the best of them, don’t always see undiscussed, weird auctions the way we’d want them to. Indeed, for me, using keycard in one suit then bidding 6 of a lower suit expressly asks for third round control! And I think that’s fairly standard in expert circles.

So, not wanting to lose a huge swing by bidding that way….we’re definitely not faring well in 7Hx’d with Kxxxx opposite J10, and the J10 getting tapped at trick one….I’m not doubling. Also, of course, there’s no guarantee that partner will bid hearts no matter how the auction goes.

If I think we’re likely to lose the match by playing down the middle (to use a golfing analogy) I’m bidding 6D. If I think it’s going to be close or that we rate to win, I’ll bid 5D.

[jillybean]

 DavidKok, on 2024-May-01, 11:18, said:

I suspect the auction wasn't as presented. Is there a 'pass' missing?
Either way you should ask yourself which hand type struggles to make any other bid. The purpose of all bids, in particular conventions, is to solve problems with the hands that cannot be shown through other means. A bid for every hand, not a hand for every bid. What hand types would be unable to pass or bid 2♦, 2♥, 2♠, 3♦, 3♥, 3♠ or 3NT?

yes, missed the pass

---

I can bid 2♥ or 2♠ but what I can't do is tell partner I have a M and a bust hand, 2M I think should be forward going.

[gszes]

Peering out into the future, we can see there is no good way to search for slam and by leaving the bidding at a low level (by starting with x for ex) might allow the opps to uncover a heart fit that might lead to a great sacrifice against our 5d making. Given these facts, it seems to me that a direct bid of 5d is best in this situation. Wildly distributional hands are difficult at times and here the 5d bid (even if it hurts) seems to be a favorite. Try to use the the information obtained to decide on the best course of action. If your system happpens to have a 4n regular blackwood bid (unlikely) I would be willing to use that since the opps would be favorites to hold the club ace if partner has one.

[P_Marlowe]

If you make a T/O, you will get a 2S response, he is limiting his hand below inv. strength,
which wont come as a suprise, 2NT as answer to the T/O would be reverse Lebensohl.

With regards to the match; After the first session we were down 16IMPs, I allowed the opponents
to endplay me, not unblocking Kx (I was playing too fast and I did not have this on my radar, I need
to keep this situation KX before ATxx in my mind, that the endplay is a real danger.).
It did not cost, the game was made in the other room as well, but you dont get those chances often.

In the 2nd set we had made a doubled red game on the plus side at this point of time, so my guess was
that we were roughly even, maybe still minus.

The advantage you have, the pair in the other room is not a regular pair, a member of our Junior Squad,
and a former female Vize Team Champion, who is no longer (very) active in international competition,
although I may be wrong in this regard.

Anyway: I bid 5D as well.
The bad news first: Partner comes down with the Ace of hearts and the 5th Jack of spade, besides the 5th
king of clubs, and you get a unsurprising club lead.
The good news is, the Jack of diamonds is heading a 4 card suit, i.e. a heart lead beats 6D outright, and
with the club lead you still need the one holding the Jack, also holding at least 2 spades.
At the other table they had a bidding misunderstanding, ending up in 5C -4

[P_Marlowe]

Now with the last board in mind, 2-3 bords later you pick up

Jxx
AKxxx
AJTx
x

corrected to

Jxx
AKxxx
x
AJTx





You are dealer and the auction develops as followes, you play a 5 card major system
with weak NT

1H - (Pass) - 2C (1) - (3S)
Pass (2) - (4S) - 4NT (3) - (Pass)
5C (4) - (Pass) - 5D (5) - (Pass)
... (6)

(1) game forcing with 5+ diamonds, heart fit possible
(2) do you agree, in retrospect, I am not sure, I currently think I should make a X
(3) either 2-places to play or slam interest with diamonds or hearts
(4) default / min, do you agree?
(5) slam interest with diamonds
(6) your bid, basically: do you pass or do you bid 6D?

With kind regards
Marlowe

[mikeh]

 jillybean, on 2024-May-01, 19:53, said:

yes, missed the pass

---

I can bid 2♥ or 2♠ but what I can't do is tell partner I have a M and a bust hand, 2M I think should be forward going.

This is very wrong. The way to show no game interest opposite an average to slightly above average takeout double is to bid your suit at the two level. Why on earth would you feel it’s better to contract for 9 tricks with a bad hand while reserving 2x for a good hand? It’s the exact opposite of normal bidding.

[jillybean]

Test

 P_Marlowe, on 2024-May-01, 22:29, said:

Now with the last board in mind, 2-3 bords later you pick up

Jxx
AKxxx
AJTx
x

You are dealer and the auction develops as followes, you play a 5 card major system
with weak NT

1H - (Pass) - 2C (1) - (3S)
Pass (2) - (4S) - 4NT (3) - (Pass)
5C (4) - (Pass) - 5D (5) - (Pass)
... (6)

(1) game forcing with 5+ diamonds, heart fit possible
(2) do you agree, in retrospect, I am not sure, I currently think I should make a X
(3) either 2-places to play or slam interest with diamonds or hearts
(4) default / min, do you agree?
(5) slam interest with diamonds
(6) your bid, basically: do you pass or do you bid 6D?

With kind regards
Marlowe

Not that my opinion holds any value but it’s a good exercise for me.

With my red suits, I like x rather than pass but the hand is looking more like a 12 count so pass is reasonable.
Yes, default minimum is a good description
Partner is showing a slam interest in diamonds, I bid 6, I think he has a spade void

[mikeh]

 P_Marlowe, on 2024-May-01, 22:29, said:

Now with the last board in mind, 2-3 bords later you pick up

Jxx
AKxxx
AJTx
x

You are dealer and the auction develops as followes, you play a 5 card major system
with weak NT

1H - (Pass) - 2C (1) - (3S)
Pass (2) - (4S) - 4NT (3) - (Pass)
5C (4) - (Pass) - 5D (5) - (Pass)
... (6)

(1) game forcing with 5+ diamonds, heart fit possible
(2) do you agree, in retrospect, I am not sure, I currently think I should make a X
(3) either 2-places to play or slam interest with diamonds or hearts
(4) default / min, do you agree?
(5) slam interest with diamonds
(6) your bid, basically: do you pass or do you bid 6D?

With kind regards
Marlowe

You ask if we agreed that this was a minimum hand. No. I think this has become a huge hand!

Did you listen to the bidding? What do you think is probably going on in spades?

Hint: RHO almost surely has 7 (he stepped into an unlimited but strong auction without the opps having announced a fit). LHO upped the ante to 4S…how likely is it that he did so on a doubleton, again given that the opps haven’t announced a fit?

So I’d estimate it at around 90% that partner has a stiff or even void spade.btw, I don’t understand passing 3S. Do you think that partner won’t be interested in knowing of AJ10x in his game force suit? Were you seriously considering passing a reopening double?

Opposite a blah non-gf hand, say x Qx KQxxx Axxx, slam is virtually cold, and he has more hcp than that!

Not only that, but having denied good primary support for diamonds, over 3S, to continue to treat this as a minimum completely baffles me.

I’m also baffled by partner’s 5D bid. When did he learn that we have ANY diamond fit? I suspect you left something out but, if not…what kind of hand has the ability to bid 5D on this auction?

Plus, if 4N was two places to play, doesn’t that include clubs? In which case using 5C to show a minimum seems very silly. Can’t he pass with say x xx KQxxx AKQxx? If 4N was only about the reds, then 5C as artificial makes sense, if you were Walter the walrus counting Goren points.

But I’m still mystified by 5D. Unless you’ve shown support in a way you’ve not shared with us, doesn’t 5D suggest KQxxxx or longer? Who in their right mind would consider a shorter suit as trump when partner has twice denied good support?

Anyway, not bidding slam now seems positively weird. If it’s wrong, then it’s because I’ve failed to describe my hand to partner earlier, which might let him place the contract instead of me having to guess. Heck, we may be missing grand!

[P_Marlowe]

 mikeh, on 2024-May-02, 10:15, said:

<snip>
I’m also baffled by partner’s 5D bid. When did he learn that we have ANY diamond fit? I suspect you left something out but, if not…what kind of hand has the ability to bid 5D on this auction?
<snip>

The pass over 3S certainly denied 3+ diamonds, i.e. partner can at best expect 2- diamonds, and I was not at my best level the whole match.
I may hide behind 8 hours of work, but this would only be half of the truth.

Sry, I had the club suit and diamond suit holding in my hand mixed up, I have a diamond single.

[mga010]

 P_Marlowe, on 2024-May-01, 01:36, said:

Hi,

yesterday evening we played the next round in the German Cup competition, ... and we made it.
The following hand came up, followed by a 2nd I will give, after finishing this one, but in
the same thread.

The opponents play Blue Club, married couple, both members of the German squad, (Open / Woman),
you may be able to guess the names.

All vul. in 4th you pick up

♠AKQ
♥JT
♦AKQT9xxx

The auction

(Pass) - Pass - (2C (1)) - ??? (2)

(1) 5+ clubs, 10-15, 4 cards major possible, but rarely
(2) 3C would be Michaels (both Majors), 4D would be Leaping Michaels

As always I am more interested in your thoughts than you actual actions.


With kind regards
Marlowe

Isn't 5D an exact description of this hand after the explanation of the 2C bid? Partner should even bid 6 with the Ace of H.