[jillybean]

Just as the title says, you have no forcing minor raise, you are not playing 2/1.
I don't see a way to bid past 3nt, do you?

---

[pescetom]

Wouldn't one bid a forcing 2/1 here even if it wasn't GF in the system?
Perhaps:
1D 2C
2S 3H (4SF)
4D 4N (RKCB D)
5H (2!Q) 5N (K?)
6S (SK) 7D
P

[shyams]

If you are playing with a partner & you don't have complex partnership agreements, I think the North hand should invoke Blackwood at his second turn.

1♦ - 2♣
3♦ - 4NT
6♦ - pass

Assumes no special agreement except that the 6♦ bid shows a void somewhere.

[smerriman]

According to the SAYC booklet, opener must jump shift with 19-21 (even after 2♣), after which I can't see any way to avoid slam.

[pescetom]

In our 2/1 it might go:
1D 2C
2S 3D
3H 4D
4S 4N (even kc)
5C 5H
6C (+Q) 6S
7D P

[Tramticket]

Even in Acol, a reverse after a two-level response is forcing to game. So our auction probably has exactly the same start as a 2-over-1 system: 1D-2C; 2S-3D. The exact route to slam will then depend on your methods.

[bluenikki]

 jillybean, on 2024-March-29, 12:09, said:

Just as the title says, you have no forcing minor raise, you are not playing 2/1.
I don't see a way to bid past 3nt, do you?

---

1♦ - 2♣
2♠ - 4♦
4♠ - 5♣
etc

This depends on: (1) 2♠ is GF and emphasizes diamonds. (2) opener's 4NT over 4♦ would not be forcing.

[ASC87]

I am fascinated by the phrases used in Bridge.
If you don't mind me asking, what does this phrase mean in this context?
I get what other phrases meant - the ones you have posted before this - but could u explain this?

 jillybean, on 2024-March-29, 12:09, said:

Just as the title says, you have no forcing minor raise, you are not playing 2/1.
I don't see a way to bid past 3nt, do you?

---

[jillybean]

 ASC87, on 2024-March-29, 19:59, said:

I am fascinated by the phrases used in Bridge.
If you don't mind me asking, what does this phrase mean in this context?
I get what other phrases meant - the ones you have posted before this - but could u explain this?

Plain Vanilla? I made it up. No conventions, no special agreements, new players.
Plain vanilla , I think of ice cream, plain, not french vanilla, no sprinkles or topping.

[jillybean]

Thanks for replies. This is a hand I'm going to go over next week with a few new players, who unsuprisingly stopped in 3nt. No 4sf, no reverse, plain vanilla.

 pescetom, on 2024-March-29, 12:28, said:

Wouldn't one bid a forcing 2/1 here even if it wasn't GF in the system?
Perhaps:
1D 2C
2S 3H (4SF)
4D 4N (RKCB D)
5H (2!Q) 5N (K?)
6S (SK) 7D
P

Too many gadgets, no 4sf

 smerriman, on 2024-March-29, 12:34, said:

According to the SAYC booklet, opener must jump shift with 19-21 (even after 2♣), after which I can't see any way to avoid slam.

So it would go
1D:2C
3S:
I'm reminded why it was a good choice to swap from SAYC to 2/1

 Tramticket, on 2024-March-29, 14:30, said:

Even in Acol, a reverse after a two-level response is forcing to game. So our auction probably has exactly the same start as a 2-over-1 system: 1D-2C; 2S-3D. The exact route to slam will then depend on your methods.

In a 2/1 auction I think I would bid 2D over the GF 2C, but we probably get to the same spot.

[ASC87]

Epic!!
Very creative. Thsmk you.

 jillybean, on 2024-March-29, 20:25, said:

Plain Vanilla? I made it up. No conventions, no special agreements, new players.
Plain vanilla , I think of ice cream, plain, not french vanilla, no sprinkles or topping.

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2024-March-29, 20:34, said:

Too many gadgets, no 4sf

If 2S was already a game force in Acol (as tramticket asserts) then there is no need for 4sf. In Italian 4 card majors neither 2C nor 2S force to game: 2C promises a rebid and 2S either says nothing about strength or promises extra strength, according to the version of system (most played the former towards the end of the system).

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2024-March-29, 20:34, said:

In a 2/1 auction I think I would bid 2D over the GF 2C, but we probably get to the same spot.

Why would you do this, with a partner you trust?

[bluenikki]

 jillybean, on 2024-March-29, 20:34, said:

no reverse

In 1960 Goren, 1♦ - 2♣ - 2♠ would be game-forcing. (As would any rebid above 2♦)

[jillybean]

 pescetom, on 2024-March-30, 02:56, said:

Why would you do this, with a partner you trust?

Over 2C, if partner has 4 spades we will still find our spade fit if that is where we should be.
1D:2C
2D:2S
3S

Perhaps I am influenced by seeing both hands. AKQ763 is a solid 6 card suit, I think I should tell partner about the main feature of my hand.
Bidding 2S with AJ53 is going to make the auction awkward for partner if he doesn't have spade support or the ability to bid NT, I have heart KQ

Thanks for all other replies, of course there are many methods to bid these hands. However it proved difficult for many pairs in this game, only 2 pairs got to a slam (7NT, 6D)

[bluenikki]

 jillybean, on 2024-March-30, 08:32, said:

AKQ763 is a solid 6 card suit, I think I should tell partner about the main feature of my hand.

Do you believe 2♦ even suggests a strong suit?

[ASC87]

Yes, that I understood lol
Thanks

 ASC87, on 2024-March-29, 21:20, said:

Epic!!
Very creative. Thsmk you.

[pescetom]

 jillybean, on 2024-March-30, 08:32, said:

Perhaps I am influenced by seeing both hands. AKQ763 is a solid 6 card suit, I think I should tell partner about the main feature of my hand.
Bidding 2S with AJ53 is going to make the auction awkward for partner if he doesn't have spade support or the ability to bid NT.

Partner not having spade support nor NT nor diamonds support is a fairly small target: in any case your duty is to describe the hand, not mastermind.
I think the distribution is even more important than the solid suit, but if you disagree then a jump to 3D shows solid suit (and 2D denies, at least in my book).

[mikeh]

 jillybean, on 2024-March-30, 08:32, said:

Over 2C, if partner has 4 spades we will still find our spade fit if that is where we should be.
1D:2C
2D:2S
3S

Perhaps I am influenced by seeing both hands. AKQ763 is a solid 6 card suit, I think I should tell partner about the main feature of my hand.
Bidding 2S with AJ53 is going to make the auction awkward for partner if he doesn't have spade support or the ability to bid NT, I have heart KQ

Thanks for all other replies, of course there are many methods to bid these hands. However it proved difficult for many pairs in this game, only 2 pairs got to a slam (7NT, 6D)

Rebidding diamonds over 2C is a very bad move.

You have a good suit but:

It’s not the main feature of your hand…not even close. The main features of your hand are (1) huge hcp, (2) potentially wonderful distributional strength and (3, partly overlapping with 2) a good four card side suit.

Bidding 2D leaves you guessing later, since you have lied to your partner and can’t now rely on the information you get from him. That’s one of the (several) downsides to masterminding.

Bidding 3D eliminates spades from play. Why can’t he have KQxx xx x AKxxxx?

Of course he’ll bid 3S over 3D but that DOES NOT show a possible trump suit…it says one of two things, the first being most likely: I’m looking for notrump…I have a spade stopper or two but nothing in hearts. The second, which I would not ever use but I’ve seen non-experts do this….I’m making an advance cuebid…if you bid 3N I’m pulling in search of a slam.

In neither case does it suggest playing in spades. Why? Because 3D denied a four card major in any logical method…wtf jump to the 3 level, concealing a primary feature of the hand?

After a normal, non-masterminding collaborative, partner-respecting 2S rebid, responder bids 3D and wild horses couldn’t keep me out of 6D and I’d be straining to try for 7. Whether we get there depends on partner but it’s very doable

1D 2C
2S 3D
3H 3S
4C 4H


At this point opener could simply bid the diamond grand!

[jillybean]

 pescetom, on 2024-March-30, 14:13, said:

Partner not having spade support nor NT nor diamonds support is a fairly small target: in any case your duty is to describe the hand, not mastermind.
I think the distribution is even more important than the solid suit, but if you disagree then a jump to 3D shows solid suit (and 2D denies, at least in my book).

For my partnership, 3♦ would show a self sufficient suit, set trump and ask partner to cue bid. 2♦ shows a 6 card suit, strength unlimited so far.