[pilun]

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6♦ is not the end of the world but we'd rather not be there.

(small edit) For 4♣, partner was naturally expecting ♦AK + either ♣K or two queens. DCB would sort out which in time. Anyway,

I was thinking of distorting my shape to 2-3-6-2, not wanting to steer partner away from 3NT.
Do people ever do that?

When counting SPs, we treat a stiff king as 1 SP and ignore stiff queens. Should we extend that discount to stiff aces? So 2/1/0.

As you note, we switch to positive cueing of stiff aces and kings. (y-y-y-y) Many just ignore them, working it out from the other suits.
What do people do and do you think it's a close call?

TIA

[nullve]

Who was sitting East?

[pilun]

nullve, on 2024-January-07, 05:17, said:

Who was sitting East?

Bidding practice, so robots.

[Gilithin]

It makes sense to downgrade stiff kings to queens in both AK and QP relay systems. I do not understand Opener's logic in expecting ♦AK here at all. What do they think partner has as their singleton spade to have given a positive signal for the suit? It is clearly some special quirk of your system and this is what seems to have gone wrong over anything else.

[sfi]

Gilithin, on 2024-January-07, 16:02, said:

I do not understand Opener's logic in expecting ♦AK here at all. What do they think partner has as their singleton spade to have given a positive signal for the suit? It is clearly some special quirk of your system and this is what seems to have gone wrong over anything else.

Opener can't stop in 5D - that's another relay. My reading of OP's comment is that this is what opener was hoping for when relaying. They knew it was impossible after the 5C bid but was endplayed by the system into bidding the slam.

[hrothgar]

We don't count stiff Kings or Queens for the purpose of slam points, nor do we stop / show them during scanning

[straube]

I like to count stiff A=2, K=1, Q=0 but also scan for these stiff honors (including the Q). So often a stiff ace has been a disappointment to me, and often a king in a suit I hope to solidify is worth more than a stiff ace elsewhere. I find if I devalue these stiff honors, I can judge better whether I can keep asking without getting too high.

[fuzzyquack]

I see a problem rather in that a relatively trivial opening hand feels obliged to launch a few relays instead of showing its character sooner rather than later

[pilun]

sfi, on 2024-January-07, 16:06, said:

Opener can't stop in 5D - that's another relay. My reading of OP's comment is that this is what opener was hoping for when relaying. They knew it was impossible after the 5C bid but was endplayed by the system into bidding the slam.

A number of pairs use step to play in describer's known 6-carder. That would have worked here, leading to 5♦. We don't. Seems a bit rare and easy to forget. Not so much the 5♦ to play, rather that 5♥ sounds like a sign-off.

KK Relay uses the step in opener's known FIVE-carder to play, though only after auctions starting 1M - 2♣ (GFR). It's worth noting that their 2-suited structure is 2 steps up after 1M openings.

So 1♥...... 3♠ = 3-5-4-1 say
4♣ - 4♦ minimum kontrols
4♥ is to play, 4♠ triggers DCB.

On the value of a stiff ace, think we will keep as is. After all, it's 1st, 2nd and 3rd round control!

[straube]

pilun, on 2024-January-09, 00:20, said:

A number of pairs use step to play in describer's known 6-carder. That would have worked here, leading to 5♦. We don't. Seems a bit rare and easy to forget. Not so much the 5♦ to play, rather that 5♥ sounds like a sign-off.

KK Relay uses the step in opener's known FIVE-carder to play, though only after auctions starting 1M - 2♣ (GFR). It's worth noting that their 2-suited structure is 2 steps up after 1M openings.

So 1♥...... 3♠ = 3-5-4-1 say
4♣ - 4♦ minimum kontrols
4♥ is to play, 4♠ triggers DCB.

On the value of a stiff ace, think we will keep as is. After all, it's 1st, 2nd and 3rd round control!

After 3S + 3-5-4-1 I like...

4C-asks QPs, after answer, first step is DCB
4D-asks QPs, if answer is minimum (=less than +2 QPs), asker places contract
4H-to play, teller super-accepts with +4 QPs

This keeps you always in your QP/DCB structure but lets you signal to teller that asker may only have mild interest and is fishing out +2 responses

[foobar]

I really dislike discounting stiff Aces (am open to discounting stiff Ks, counting them as 0 when playing AK controls and 1 otherwise). My recollection is that awm (IMPrecision) counts stiff Ks at full value, so YMMV.

On the hand in question, it seems like North should bid 3N over 3♦ given the flat 10 QP hand? Failing that, carrying on over 4♣ after a 7-QP response seems mighty optimistic at best.

[Cascade]

foobar, on 2024-January-14, 15:04, said:

On the hand in question, it seems like North should bid 3N over 3♦ given the flat 10 QP hand? Failing that, carrying on over 4♣ after a 7-QP response seems mighty optimistic at best.

♥Q ♦AK seems like a likely hand and slam is little worse than the heart break. It must be worth at least trying for slam if that is possible.

[foobar]

Cascade, on 2024-January-17, 13:44, said:

♥Q ♦AK seems like a likely hand and slam is little worse than the heart break. It must be worth at least trying for slam if that is possible.

IME 18 QP slams are usually viable only with 9+ fits, and this one seems anemic.