[MickyB]

Do you play 1♠-P-2♠-2NT as the minors or any two places to play? What would be your minimum, and what would it be if you were a passed hand? And before you say it Mark - yes, I know the minimum should be a fair bit more than I had

[helene_t]

If I recall correctly, my partnership's agreement is to play this as any two-suiter. But now that I think about it, maybe it's better to play it as clubs + a red suit. Then hearts+diamonds go via equal level conversion (which we otherwise don't play).

[FrancesHinden]

MickyB, on Jul 5 2005, 08:31 AM, said:

Quote

Do you play 1♠-P-2♠-2NT as the minors or any two places to play?

Yes.

All right then, as any two non-spade suits.

Quote

What would be your minimum, and what would it be if you were a passed hand?

Pretty much unchanged as a passed hand or not, as I don't play any 2-suited openings.

Much the same strength as an immediate 2NT overcall over 1S (except the suits are less well defined).

Minimum NV: something like
x
QJ10xx
xx
KQxxx

would be pretty marginal marginal, possibly at favourable not at love all

vul it shows a pretty good hand, likely to have 11 cards in the 2 suits maybe a dead minimum would be

-
KQxxxx
xx
QJ10xx

If the auction started, say, 1H P 2S (some sort of game forcing bid) I can bid 2NT NV on much less, as now it's definitely a pre-emptive auction.

[Echognome]

A few other considerations on this auction.

1. Would double then be 3 places to play (traditional 1444)? Or as Helene says either this or the reds?

2. If you are playing two-suited preempts, then is there any sensible use of 2NT if you're a passed hand? I would guess for uniformity it would be easier to keep things the same, but it makes less sense now. Perhaps 2NT can be takeout with a spade stopper and double takeout without a spade stopper?

3. How do these bids change (if at all) in the passout seat?

(1♠) - P - (2♠) - ? vs

(1♠) - P - (2♠) - P
(P) - ?

4. Speaking of passout seat, how would you play

(1♥) - P - (2♥) - P
(P) - ?

X = ?
2♠ = ?
2NT = ?

X is obviously protective and would imply 4 spades.
Would 2♠ just show a bad 5 card spade suit (and hence why you didn't overcall?) Or would it show 2 places to play? (spades and a minor) or is that best left to be shown by a double (in which case with 45 in the blacks you are in trouble).
2NT seems that it should just show the minors.

[pigpenz]

i would play as a two suiter, it partner bids clubs and i correct then hearts and diamonds, and if partner bids diamonds and i correct to hearts then hearts and clubs. Just dont try this in indis as the people there never figure it out

[mike777]

MickyB, on Jul 5 2005, 08:31 AM, said:

Do you play 1♠-P-2♠-2NT as the minors or any two places to play? What would be your minimum, and what would it be if you were a passed hand? And before you say it Mark - yes, I know the minimum should be a fair bit more than I had 

1)Play as 2 lower unbid suits.
If partner bids 3clubs and I correct to 3d, now I show D and H, until then partner assumes minors.
2) 2nt=weak or strong, with opening hand I bid suit or x depending on hand type. Vul I will have decent suits, not silly.

[MickyB]

FWIW: I believe the sequence is two places to play. I would expect the minimum to be less by a passed hand purely because the maximum is also less - x QJTxx QJTxx xx looks like a clearcut 2N bid to me.

To answer Echognome's questions:

1. I don't play ELC on many sequences, although I guess there is no reason why double shouldn't be takeout or reds by a passed hand.

2. If you can open any 2 suiter then P-1S-P-2S, 2N sounds like a 04(54) - basically a takeout double too offensive to risk a pass by pard.

3. I don't think they change at all in passout seat, except for being more aggressive

1H-P-2H-P, P-X could easily be 3145, many consider KQJx xxxx Ax xxx an obvious 2S bid here, as well as a lot of hands too weak or with too poor a suit for an initial overcall. 2N is minors. 45 blacks could indeed be a problem but 2N two places to play should sort some of the hands, or you can just bid one of your suits.

[inquiry]

Two places to play. This is an OBAR situation, so I can be very weak for 2NT. IF I have the distribution, I feel like I ahve to be the one to bid. This removes the pressure from partner to balance. Now, if I was red and they where white, of course, this would be sound. Other vul conditions, this is competiting.

[MickyB]

inquiry, on Jul 5 2005, 06:27 PM, said:

Two places to play. This is an OBAR situation, so I can be very weak for 2NT. IF I have the distribution, I feel like I ahve to be the one to bid. This removes the pressure from partner to balance. Now, if I was red and they where white, of course, this would be sound. Other vul conditions, this is competiting.

Ok then Ben, let's find out how weak "weak" is...

The hand that inspired the question was void QT854 T9874 Q92. Do you go for it? I did, but only cos it was online and Mark is fun to wind up

[Fluffy]

2 places to play, minimum depends on form of scoring and vulnerability, at MP not vulnerable I think there is no minimum with a 5-5.

[mr1303]

You certainly succeeded on that one.

Anyway, me deciding that Mike for some unknown reason might have 1 useful card for his bid decided to double them in 5S. Which was arctic.

[pclayton]

Amazing. Not a single suggestion what this call meant for about the 1st 60 years of bridge - natural! Play with anyone over the age of 50 and that's what they'll tell you it means.

I play it as the minors but like the 2 suiter idea. Double shows 3 suits or a balanced hand. A 2N response to the dbl is scrambling unless opener takes another call (not a 1S opening).then its g/b.

[P_Marlowe]

MickyB, on Jul 5 2005, 12:53 PM, said:

inquiry, on Jul 5 2005, 06:27 PM, said:

Two places to play. This is an OBAR situation, so I can be very weak for 2NT. IF I have the distribution, I feel like I ahve to be the one to bid. This removes the pressure from partner to balance. Now, if I was red and they where white, of course, this would be sound. Other vul conditions, this is competiting.

Ok then Ben, let's find out how weak "weak" is...

The hand that inspired the question was void QT854 T9874 Q92. Do you go for it? I did, but only cos it was online and Mark is fun to wind up

Hi,

your given example is ok, as long as the vul. is right,
i.e. green versus red being perfect,
green versus green and red versus red, being ok.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[inquiry]

P_Marlowe, on Jul 6 2005, 07:08 AM, said:

MickyB, on Jul 5 2005, 12:53 PM, said:

inquiry, on Jul 5 2005, 06:27 PM, said:

Two places to play. This is an OBAR situation, so I can be very weak for 2NT. IF I have the distribution, I feel like I ahve to be the one to bid. This removes the pressure from partner to balance. Now, if I was red and they where white, of course, this would be sound. Other vul conditions, this is competiting.

Ok then Ben, let's find out how weak "weak" is...

The hand that inspired the question was void QT854 T9874 Q92. Do you go for it? I did, but only cos it was online and Mark is fun to wind up

Hi,

your given example is ok, as long as the vul. is right,
i.e. green versus red being perfect,
green versus green and red versus red, being ok.

With kind regards
Marlowe

Green versus Red, stregnth is just barely ok. But here, your spade void suggest spades maybe breaking badly for them, and partner might not take the joke when they bid 4S. So I would pass. Reverse clubs and spades, i would bid it green versus red and green versus green.