[lchiu7]

I have been watching 2022 Summer NABC - Spingold F 1/2 - Table 1 Closed on Youtube and this round turned up.

https://www.youtube....k?feature=share

On board 2 at about 30:15 declarer in 3NT is trying to work out how to play a diamond suit AKQ108753 opposite single 4. He leads the 4, RHO plays the 6, he then asks LHO something, goes into the tank and then finesses the 10 successfully, He now has 7 diamond tricks, 2 spades, and a club so he is home. Overtricks on board 2 of an IMP game are hardly worth worrying about. Yet he slowly plays out the diamonds, one by one, putting LHO into discard grief when he just could have claimed 10 tricks and moved on. He ends up making 10 tricks versus the 9 in the closed room but hardly a major victory.

I must be missing something here that "experts" do so I am interested in what subtleties I missed.

[pilowsky]

Not sure about the question but the two people arguing with a hot mic. at the start is hilarious.

[TylerE]

You're allowed to think.

A high level IMP game is not a club fast pairs.

One IMP can be the difference between advancing and going home.

Hypothetical claimer is under no obligation to assume perfect defense.

Frankly saying "Overtricks on board 2 of an IMP game are hardly worth worrying about." is insulting to the players.

[lchiu7]

 TylerE, on 2023-August-03, 16:46, said:

You're allowed to think.

A high level IMP game is not a club fast pairs.

One IMP can be the difference between advancing and going home.

Hypothetical claimer is under no obligation to assume perfect defense.

Frankly saying "Overtricks on board 2 of an IMP game are hardly worth worrying about." is insulting to the players.

Clearly I missed the subtleties here. I guess I didn't demean the value of one trick in an IMP game. From very distant memory there was a 12 board playoff for a team to represent the US in the Bermuda Bowl after a tie after 128 boards. And the team won by 1 imp.

I guess what I didn't quite understand was, there appeared to be 10 tricks and I could not see more. So why play it out card by card?

[lchiu7]

 pilowsky, on 2023-August-03, 04:00, said:

Not sure about the question but the two people arguing with a hot mic. at the start is hilarious.

My question was, you have 7 running tricks in diamonds, and 3 other tricks. Why play out the hand and make the opponent agonise over each discard (which clearly LHO was doing) versus just claiming 10. I guess not being someone who plays at this level I don't understand and happy to have it explained to me.

[smerriman]

Suppose after the first 9 tricks have been played, you swap the positions of the K and J of hearts. You lead the heart to the jack, queen, and king, and now you're getting an extra trick in hearts.

Of course, the opponents may well have discarded differently with those hands. But why claim and ensure you have zero chance of something like that happening?

[thepossum]

Watching that session made me happy or relieved that I wasn't good enough or just chose a different profession. It was agonising to watch. I'm struggling to observe any pleasure in the exercise

[barmar]

I've been watching top-level play (either kibitzing vugraph or as a vugraph operator myself) for many years. My experience is that they always claim whenever feasible. And claims among top-level players are even more common than us regular folk, because if you claim on a double squeeze your opponents will understand; if you tried to do this in a club game you'd spend more time explaining the squeeze than just playing it out.

So if they didn't claim, it's most likely because they thought the play mattered. Even in IMPs they'll always try for an overtrick if it's possible.

Another possibility is that the player was simply tired and didn't realize that it didn't matter. When you're playing in the Spingold final you've been playing against tough competition for almost a week. These players don't make many mistakes, but if they do it's when they're worn out like this.

[pescetom]

 lchiu7, on 2023-August-03, 03:38, said:

I have been watching 2022 Summer NABC - Spingold F 1/2 - Table 1 Closed on Youtube and this round turned up.

https://www.youtube....k?feature=share

On board 2 at about 30:15 declarer in 3NT is trying to work out how to play a diamond suit AKQ108753 opposite single 4. He leads the 4, RHO plays the 6, he then asks LHO something, goes into the tank and then finesses the 10 successfully, He now has 7 diamond tricks, 2 spades, and a club so he is home. Overtricks on board 2 of an IMP game are hardly worth worrying about. Yet he slowly plays out the diamonds, one by one, putting LHO into discard grief when he just could have claimed 10 tricks and moved on. He ends up making 10 tricks versus the 9 in the closed room but hardly a major victory.

I must be missing something here that "experts" do so I am interested in what subtleties I missed.

I looked at it but failed to find the board you refer to... board 2 is at that time but a rather dubious 2DX.
Would I be right to guess that the Declarer you complain about is the same?

[sfi]

 lchiu7, on 2023-August-03, 21:13, said:

My question was, you have 7 running tricks in diamonds, and 3 other tricks. Why play out the hand and make the opponent agonise over each discard (which clearly LHO was doing) versus just claiming 10. I guess not being someone who plays at this level I don't understand and happy to have it explained to me.

Tricks appear in these situations more often than you might think. East might have all the values and have real discarding problems, or East might not know where West's values are and simply get it wrong. There's nothing wrong with playing for an unlikely extra trick.

[lchiu7]

 pescetom, on 2023-August-04, 15:41, said:

I looked at it but failed to find the board you refer to... board 2 is at that time but a rather dubious 2DX.
Would I be right to guess that the Declarer you complain about is the same?

If you go about 37 minutes into the video, it's board 2 with North declaring 3NT

[lchiu7]

 barmar, on 2023-August-04, 13:44, said:

I've been watching top-level play (either kibitzing vugraph or as a vugraph operator myself) for many years. My experience is that they always claim whenever feasible. And claims among top-level players are even more common than us regular folk, because if you claim on a double squeeze your opponents will understand; if you tried to do this in a club game you'd spend more time explaining the squeeze than just playing it out.

So if they didn't claim, it's most likely because they thought the play mattered. Even in IMPs they'll always try for an overtrick if it's possible.

Another possibility is that the player was simply tired and didn't realize that it didn't matter. When you're playing in the Spingold final you've been playing against tough competition for almost a week. These players don't make many mistakes, but if they do it's when they're worn out like this.

I watched quite a few of these tournaments, especially when I recognize the players, to try to learn. They do tend to claim as soon as they can, possibly to speed up the game. Most of the time the claim is for all the remaining tricks, or "I will give you the Ace of trumps - I have the rest" sort of claim. But this situation where the declarer has 10 tricks and is prepared to give up 2 is different since opponent discarding could reward him with one more.