[whereagles]

Correct, Justin. But some people just never make mistakes.

[bearmum]

The_Hog, on Jun 30 2005, 11:50 PM, said:

david_c, on Jun 30 2005, 09:39 AM, said:

♠ AJ83
♥ Q
♦ JT94
♣ AJ76

MP, favourable vul.

The bidding starts with 1♦ on your right (this is a "short diamond" - either 4+ diamonds or 11-13 balanced). You pass, LHO bids 1♥, partner passes, and RHO raises to 2♥. The raise to 2♥ is frequently made on only three cards, even sometimes with a balanced hand.

At the table, the player holding this hand doubled, and ended up with -800.

Would you say that the double deserved this bad result, or not?

Absolutely. This player had a 1S overcall.

Playing SAYC 2/1 or any system with 5C majors I do not think this hand qualifies for an immediate 1♠ overcall (hindsight is always 20/20 though )
In this case the "normal" double went for 800(unfortunate but only 1 board) - shrug your shoulders and go on to next board

[cherdano]

Btw, I cannot see how 3♦ can go down 4 -- were trumps 5-0?

Arend

[david_c]

cherdano, on Jul 1 2005, 12:24 PM, said:

Btw, I cannot see how 3♦ can go down 4 -- were trumps 5-0?

They didn't manage to find 3♦. So, maybe you will say, this is the cause of the bad result. And I would agree with you. Indeed, the doubler's partner showed excellent technique in the post-mortem, going on the offensive before anyone could ask why it was that they ended up in 2♠X on a 4-2 fit ...

[mikestar]

Pass must be asking for a rescue. Responder shows at least game invitational values and the desire to go for blood. If the enemy have their bids, you cannot defeat 2♥ and may give up overtricks.

If responder psyched the redouble, then (1) opener has a rock and you still can't beat 2♥, or (2) partner has a rock and will know that you can beat 2♥ and will pass also, or (3) both opener and partner have about 15-16, you should be fine regardless of what partner does.

Pass should imply a lack of tolerance for spades as 2♠ takes up no bidding room, and uncertainty as to the best place to play. Here doubler could rebid 2NT asking "you pick the minor".

[hotShot]

Well the result is obviously teamwork.
1) You should not pass after 1♦, if openers ♦ bid can be artificial, you can dbl without shortness there. I don't like 1♠ because it's just 4 cards, but it sure has advantages.
2) If you had a 5 card suit, you could have bid it before. So partner should have a 3+-cards in the suit he suggests.

[pclayton]

They're all oot of step 'cept our Jock!

My regular pard and I have stopped making OBAR bids in live auctions like the given hand. You wouldn't dream of making this call at IMPS so why are you giving your opponents a fielders choice by competing in a live auction with a LHO that is unlimited? To us this is SOP for the expertarati but its bad bridge. BB (before Bergen) people didn't barge into auctions like this, even the term 'sandwich overcall' meant you had a hand.

Better to let pard balance once responder lets the auction die. Our pard understands the importance of not letting opponents play 2 of a major and will balance with length in their suit. And if pard happens to have length and strength in their suit we will gladly defend 2H trying to defend better than the field and also gain against pairs that are over competing and going for 200.

[pigpenz]

we play a defense against short diamonds and prec diamond
x= 1nt overcall
1♥=wto
1♠=natural
1nt=single suited hand
2♣=♣♥
2♦2=♦♥
2♥=♥ ♠
2♠=♠♣ or ♠♦

if they we dont know what they have either do they so we will make them make the last guess!

[cherdano]

I think this is a phantom discussion. From all I can see so far, opponents may be cold for 4♥, and 3♦ is at most 300.

I still think that passing then doubling 2♥ is the best description of the hand. Overcalling 1♠ will also lead to penalties when partner raises to 3♠, not expecting 4-card overcalls. Doubling 1♦ -- sorry, what does this show? (I would agree on doubling with a 4432 or 4441 hand.)

Arend

[han]

1S is not my style, double seems normal. How one could ever end up in 2S is a mystery to me.

[pclayton]

Ok I honestly misread the vul I thought we were vulnerable. Teaches me to read these posts on my handheld - in my car LOL.

Double with this hand is sort of a freebie. Perhaps a better question is would folks take a call at different colors.

Now THAT is a more engaging argument.

[mr1303]

The trouble with playing artificial defences to a short diamond is that far too often it'll be your hand, when you can make game (slam?) and it becomes much harder to work out the correct strain and level when you've made an overcall that could be based on just about anything.

Vs a strong 1C, this isn't such a problem since you are very rarely going to make anything.

[FrancesHinden]

Pass then double NV at Matchpoints just looks normal, though I wouldn't do it vul.

3D over the redouble looks normal on partner's hand if you play pass as to play (as I do).

[helene_t]

Presumably, partner passed after LHO's redouble. Then you bid 2♠ which partner took as a 5-card, so he passed.

So even if it turned out badly in this particular case, it was hardly caused by your double. Besides, there's no alternative. You can't overcall 1♠ with such a bad suit. You can't double immediately with a singleton hearts. And you can't pass in next round since you have the hearts shortness. So it's your responsibility to ballance.