[david_c]

♠ AJ83
♥ Q
♦ JT94
♣ AJ76

MP, favourable vul.

The bidding starts with 1♦ on your right (this is a "short diamond" - either 4+ diamonds or 11-13 balanced). You pass, LHO bids 1♥, partner passes, and RHO raises to 2♥. The raise to 2♥ is frequently made on only three cards, even sometimes with a balanced hand.

At the table, the player holding this hand doubled, and ended up with -800.

Would you say that the double deserved this bad result, or not?

[kenberg]

I can certainly imagine myself doubling here. He has my sympathies.
Ken

[MickyB]

Ouch...nope, not deserved at all

[cherdano]

Of course I double, probably still at IMPs.

Arend

[inquiry]

Overcall 1♠ to make their finding hearts tougher. The question of does he deserve minus 800 is not useful. OBAR would surely apply and you ahve to double 2♥ to fight for the partscore.

[whereagles]

A friend of mine once had something like

x
Ax
KQJTxx
AKJx

His RHO opened 4♠ and he butt-in the obvious 5♦. LHO doubled... he had all the remaining diamonds and points. -1400 down on a perfectly normal auction.

[Free]

Normal dbl, but I would also bid in the first round, probably 1♠.

[the hog]

david_c, on Jun 30 2005, 09:39 AM, said:

♠ AJ83
♥ Q
♦ JT94
♣ AJ76

MP, favourable vul.

The bidding starts with 1♦ on your right (this is a "short diamond" - either 4+ diamonds or 11-13 balanced). You pass, LHO bids 1♥, partner passes, and RHO raises to 2♥. The raise to 2♥ is frequently made on only three cards, even sometimes with a balanced hand.

At the table, the player holding this hand doubled, and ended up with -800.

Would you say that the double deserved this bad result, or not?

Absolutely. This player had a 1S overcall.

[flytoox]

Well, the resulst is not purely bad luck. I agree with Ben that 1S is much better than dbl in seconde round.


This hand has lots of flaw, singleton HQ, and the fact that opp may have a 4-3 fit. So after RHO's 2H, I think pass is better.

Another decisive factor is opp will surely have bad trump break. Though we may be able to make a partscore, we can just do as well by defending.

[flytoox]

whereagles, on Jun 30 2005, 09:31 AM, said:

A friend of mine once had something like

x
Ax
KQJTxx
AKJx

His RHO opened 4♠ and he butt-in the obvious 5♦. LHO doubled... he had all the remaining diamonds and points. -1400 down on a perfectly normal auction.

This is a very different hand.

[whereagles]

It was presented to point out that normal courses of action sometimes meet with unfortunate circumstances.

[Winstonm]

Looks like a normal MP action. Imps is less clear due to the nature of the opponents raise structure and the soft values. Move the heart Q into 1 of the black suits and it looks to me correct even at imps; however, as this hand points out, at imps you must always be concerned against going for a number against a partscore.

WinstonM

[helene_t]

Dbl is clear-cut. I wouldn't overcall 1♠ without the agreement that we frequently overcall on 4-cards. A 1♠ overcall is just as likely to lead to -800.

[flytoox]

whereagles, on Jun 30 2005, 11:06 AM, said:

It was presented to point out that normal courses of action sometimes meet with unfortunate circumstances.

Yes, your example justfied your point, but the hand given here can hardly support it.

[mr1303]

From the other side of the table, what do you do with his partner's hand?

xx
xxxx
Axxx
xxx

Bidding is:

1D P 1H P
2H X XX

to you. 1D is still 2+.

[whereagles]

flytoox, on Jun 30 2005, 12:08 PM, said:

whereagles, on Jun 30 2005, 11:06 AM, said:

It was presented to point out that normal courses of action sometimes meet with unfortunate circumstances.

Yes, your example justfied your point, but the hand given here can hardly support it.

I don't think so.. to pass 1♦ and later butt-in with a double seems pretty much like a normal course of action to me

As for what to do with

♠ xx
♥ xxxx
♦ Axxx
♣ xxx

1♦..pass..1♥..pass
2♥..dbl.....rdbl.....??

Without any gadgets I'd have to guess between 3♣ or 3♦. Probably 3♣, since a 4135 is more likely than a 4144.

If a 2NT gadget were available (and pass being = you pick suit), I would bid that. Pard would pick 3♣ with 5 of them, and 3♦ otherwise.

[MickyB]

2N sounds right to me. In most auctions I'd expect doubler to choose ♣ over ♦ with equal length now, but on this one he knows I'm slightly more wary of ♦ so should bid them with equal length IMO...isn't passing the XX to play?

[cherdano]

I suspect I would bid 3♦, but I can't tell for sure since I have seen partner's hand.

[kenberg]

MickyB, on Jun 30 2005, 07:53 AM, said:

..isn't passing the XX to play?

With some it is, with some it isn't. I prefer "isn't". Playing "isn't", I pass. Partner will bid 2S and the opponents will double. Bidding 2NT now should be pretty clear as I have passed up two opportunities to show clubs if I had them (3C over the XX with five, 3C over the double of 2S with four). We may still go for 800, but I think I have given it my best shot. If partner passes 2NT either because he thinks it natural or because he has no better idea, the opponents must double for a good score and then I imagine partner will do his best over my 3C.