[AL78]

Same session as before, IMP pairs, playing Benj Acol weak NT, NS vuln:

East
♠AT
♥T52
♦KJT984
♣95

As dealer I passed (do you agree?), LHO passes, partner opens 1♠ (could be a four card suit), RHO overcalls 2♥. What do you do?

[LBengtsson]

3♦ opening bid, and 3♦ now after 2♥. If you have not got a weak 2♦ bid available, and Benji Acol is 2♣ and 2♦ bid are strong (right?) then you have to have a partnership where 3♣/3♦ are made on 6 card suits with little defense if you bid aggressive. Otherwise your partner and you have to agree to 'pass' losing momentum and not blocking opps. bids.

[Tramticket]

3D opening, even if you did have a weak 2D available.

[helene_t]

Dbl

[DavidKok]

At favourable this is too strong for a 3♦ opening for me, but it fits for a 2♦ opening. However, those are some non-standard agreements. I think opening 3♦ with this, first seat favourable, is standard to the point of being automatic.

Having passed, I think we have to double now. I don't love it, but we have a good doubleton in support and not enough strength for 3♦ the second time.

[AL78]

Looks like I got this one completely wrong.

---

A double partscore swing out. They made nine tricks, and at the other table, East opened 3♦ and passed West's 3♠ response, also making nine tricks (no-one is finding ♦A lead and another).

I need to start studying competitive bidding with the aid of a book or two. I get pushed around a lot in the auction and end up leaking MPs and imps as a result.

[pescetom]

AL78, on 2022-April-23, 14:38, said:

A double partscore swing out. They made nine tricks, and at the other table, East opened 3♦ and passed West's 3♠ response, also making nine tricks (no-one is finding ♦A lead and another).

I need to start studying competitive bidding with the aid of a book or two. I get pushed around a lot in the auction and end up leaking MPs and imps as a result.

I would start by deciding on a good system and then learning it well, rather than worrying about single contests let alone single partscore losses. Most of us would have opened this hand one way or another: focus on the best way to do that and the best followups, rather than how to limit or evaluate the damage of not doing so.

[helene_t]

As I mentioned in another thread, playing weak nt means that you have to be extra aggressive when opps interfere over partner's suit opening as they rely on you to take initiative if they rely a balanced 15-17. So even if you had not been a passed hand you shouldn't pass.

Dbl doesn't promise anything in particular (except in certain situations where there is only one unbid major your dbl may promise the other major). It does show that you can manage whatever partner responds. Here you are happy with any response to a dbl.

That said, partner's pass is not good either, they should either dbl or bid 2sp.

[AL78]

helene_t, on 2022-April-23, 15:04, said:

That said, partner's pass is not good either, they should either dbl or bid 2sp.

Partner cannot bid 2♠ when the auction is at 3♥ when it comes back round to them.

[helene_t]

AL78, on 2022-April-23, 15:54, said:

Partner cannot bid 2♠ when the auction is at 3♥ when it comes back round to them.

Oops sorry my window is too small, the 3h bid is not visible lol

[nullve]

AL78, on 2022-April-23, 14:38, said:

I need to start studying competitive bidding with the aid of a book or two.

Or you could try to apply LoTT + adjustments.

For example,

---

[DavidKok]

nullve, on 2022-April-24, 03:51, said:

Or you could try to apply LoTT + adjustments.

This is not at all the issue on this hand. Rather this is an example of the last guess. Opening 3♦, first seat favourable, is perhaps outside your comfort zone. But the point is that showing this hand is going to be slightly awkward almost regardless of the auction. In that case it is better to have taken a gamble earlier, when the opponents have not yet had time to assess their combined assets. Plus, partner will at the same time get a pretty good picture of your hand - really all you're missing is a seventh diamond (and that one is not at all required anymore these days).

I think nullve is saying that, based on the offensive potential of this hand, it is right to balance with 3♦. I think this is true (but the LoTT snippet is not directly relevant), but it is even better take your gamble two rounds earlier.

[Cyberyeti]

AL78, on 2022-April-23, 14:38, said:

A double partscore swing out. They made nine tricks, and at the other table, East opened 3♦ and passed West's 3♠ response, also making nine tricks (no-one is finding ♦A lead and another).

Note you don't have to find A♦ is it fantasy to overtake ♣K with the A and switch to the stiff diamond ?

[AL78]

Cyberyeti, on 2022-April-24, 05:49, said:

Note you don't have to find A♦ is it fantasy to overtake ♣K with the A and switch to the stiff diamond ?

Yes that is more likely to be found, but evidently wasn't this time.

[AL78]

DavidKok, on 2022-April-24, 05:28, said:

Opening 3♦, first seat favourable, is perhaps outside your comfort zone.

Yes, with six of them, a nearly flat shape and an outside ace. I prefer pre-empts in the first two seats to be fairly sound, and this didn't look like a 3 level pre-empt to me. I like the idea of bidding 3D next time round, which after passing should show a long suit, spade tolerance and some values.

[DavidKok]

AL78, on 2022-April-24, 08:31, said:

Yes, with six of them, a nearly flat shape and an outside ace. I prefer pre-empts in the first two seats to be fairly sound, and this didn't look like a 3 level pre-empt to me. I like the idea of bidding 3D next time round, which after passing should show a long suit, spade tolerance and some values.

This is a big mistake, as you saw on the actual auction. Once you decide to pass the first round it is only going to be more risky to bid 3♦ later, once the opponents have exchanged information. If you can introduce your diamonds at the 2-level you might come ahead but that is not very likely to happen.
Also normally the auction P-(P)-1♠-(2♥); 3♦ shows 10-11 with good diamonds and at most two spades. This hand is under strength, and there is no implication of spade tolerance.

I think a lot of people prefer to not take aggressive action with borderline hands, and in my opinion this is a mistake. Most of the time it is going to be much more dangerous to bid on the second round. You have to weigh the cost of passing throughout/not being able to describe your hand against the downside of taking action. It can be especially scary to 'take a view' if partner has a tendency to comment when we take action, but not when we pass. In spite of all that, the first round of the bidding is the best moment to gamble. The risk is only going to increase as the auction continues.

[mw64ahw]

I use the following guide for pre-empting at the 3-level with a 7+ suit or 6+ when the Weak 2 isn't available with honours in the long suit
FV 5+ playing tricks
EV 6+ playing tricks
UV 7+ playing tricks
In this case East's hand is worth 1+4.5=5.5 playing tricks so for me this is a 3♦ opening hand at Favourable Vulnerability.

[nige1]

AL78 'Looks like I got this one completely wrong. A double partscore swing out. They made nine tricks, and at the other table, East opened 3♦ and passed West's 3♠ response, also making nine tricks (no-one is finding ♦A lead and another). I need to start studying competitive bidding with the aid of a book or two. I get pushed around a lot in the auction and end up leaking MPs and imps as a result.
++++++++++++++++++
IMO
- As dealer, you should open 2♦ but 3♦ is an overbid
- Over LHO's 2♥, partner should double or bid 2♠. Probably the latter given the suit quality.
- Over LHO's 2♥, I admire Helene_ts negative double
- Over RHO's ♥ has been passed to me, I like 4♦, relatively safe after opponents have found a fit.
- On a good day, defenders might find CyberYeti's defence to 4♠.

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[mikeh]

I think the criticism of the original pass is misguided.

There is, imo, nothing wrong with a style in which this is a pass. This had is too flat and has too much defence (and too much value) to preempt, imo. I don’t mind 6 card 3 level openings, but this isn’t that hand, imo.

However, having limited the hand by the first pass, passing over 2H is very odd. Now the 3D call is obvious. Passing 2H is simply giving up.

This would be a far tougher problem had we not been a passed hand. As it is, we can safely bid 3D without any concern that partner will think we have opening values or a 3D preempt.

Ps. While I don’t like negative free bids, and few pairs play them any more at the expert level, they would work well here if we were an unpassed hand. As it is, since we have passed, it’s not relevant

[bluenikki]

mikeh, on 2022-May-03, 11:09, said:

I think the criticism of the original pass is misguided.

There is, imo, nothing wrong with a style in which this is a pass. This had is too flat and has too much defence (and too much value) to preempt, imo. I don’t mind 6 card 3 level openings, but this isn’t that hand, imo.

However, having limited the hand by the first pass, passing over 2H is very odd. Now the 3D call is obvious. Passing 2H is simply giving up.

This would be a far tougher problem had we not been a passed hand. As it is, we can safely bid 3D without any concern that partner will think we have opening values or a 3D preempt.

Ps. While I don’t like negative free bids, and few pairs play them any more at the expert level, they would work well here if we were an unpassed hand. As it is, since we have passed, it’s not relevant

Whoever invented the name negative free bid has a lot to answer for.