[AL78]

DavidKok, on 2022-April-13, 11:06, said:

No, but I would never have bid 2♣. I'm saying that on the auction, ♠Kx is more than enough to bid 2NT, even with a minimum. The fact that our hand is impossible is something I prefer not to condition on, it leads to awkward conclusions.

Interesting you say 2NT is fine with a stop even on a minimum overcall. I thought you had to have something extra to bid NT, and a minimum overcall goes back to their suit.

[DavidKok]

That's one way to play it, for sure. I prefer that 2NT does not necessarily show extras. The point is that if 3NT is not in the picture you really aren't going anywhere on this auction, so partner will 'never' pull a 3♣ signoff. Therefore if 3NT might be on we can't bid 3♣. I think that with a spade stop and a (presumably) running minor suit there are many passed hands where 9 tricks are plausible even opposite a passed hand, and 2NT lets partner in on my intentions. And if partner really did upgrade some nasty 8-bagger into a 2♠ bid they can pull the brakes, no harm no foul.

[bluenikki]

AL78, on 2022-April-13, 07:55, said:

I bid 3NT and watched her go down. Going by the responses so far it is safe to assume that this one wasn't due to overbidding on my part, so when I next see her we will have a discussion about what constitutes a reasonable 2 level overcall.

---

Only three imps out thankfully.

Here are the auctions on the other three tables:

---

---

---

They all made 10 tricks.

Why would anything but double occur to anyone? Are they afraid of a 3-card reply? Are they afraid that partner will be furious at having to play a 4-3 fit?

In the auction given after the double, the 2♣ advance is an abomination. Is there a secret agreement never to jump in a minor? Which would account for the absurd 3♣ rebid.

Carl

[akwoo]

I agree the 2♣ advance is ridiculous, but I don't think the 3♣ rebid is - even if partner has 0 hcp, given you're nonvulnerable, you're protected by the law of total tricks. Yes some partnerships play this 3♣ bid as strong, but many play it (after the intervening bid by opener) as purely competitive.

[bluenikki]

akwoo, on 2022-April-14, 11:50, said:

I agree the 2♣ advance is ridiculous, but I don't think the 3♣ rebid is - even if partner has 0 hcp, given you're nonvulnerable, you're protected by the law of total tricks. Yes some partnerships play this 3♣ bid as strong, but many play it (after the intervening bid by opener) as purely competitive.

If the 3♣ bid does not show game interest, then what do you do with 16-17? If your answer to that is cue bid, then what do you do with 19?

Really, contemporary defensive bidding methods make no allowance for the intervenor's having a really good hand.

Seems like inviting frequent psychic openings.

[akwoo]

bluenikki, on 2022-April-14, 12:08, said:

If the 3♣ bid does not show game interest, then what do you do with 16-17? If your answer to that is cue bid, then what do you do with 19?

Really, contemporary defensive bidding methods make no allowance for the intervenor's having a really good hand.

Seems like inviting frequent psychic openings.

You double 2♥ with 16+

[helene_t]

akwoo, on 2022-April-14, 12:50, said:

You double 2♥ with 16+

I think that's wrong - you double with only three clubs and (thus) almost certainly four hearts. And enough defense to allow partner to double 2♠ for penalties if they have five of them (or to leave 2♥X if responder doesn't correct to spades).

With 4-card club support I think you just cuebid with 18+. With a mediocre 17-count we don't need to explore game.

[akwoo]

I think it's just easier to play all doubles are takeout unless obviously otherwise instead of having to remember this double is penalty-ish.

[nige1]

3N is unlucky