[AL78]

MPs, I was North:

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We (or rather I) failed to find the optimal defence and they made 11 tricks for a 50% score. When she found out I had a five card spade suit she claimed I should have overcalled. I didn't think it was good enough at the vulnerability the first time. I almost did it the second time but chickened out, since the opponents were still unlimited at that stage, and I was wary of going for -200, although we conceeded that anyway in a different way. Should I have been bolder?

[bluenikki]

AL78, on 2022-April-08, 05:45, said:

MPs, I was North:

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We (or rather I) failed to find the optimal defence and they made 11 tricks for a 50% score. When she found out I had a five card spade suit she claimed I should have overcalled. I didn't think it was good enough at the vulnerability the first time. I almost did it the second time but chickened out, since the opponents were still unlimited at that stage, and I was wary of going for -200, although we conceeded that anyway in a different way. Should I have been bolder?

Competition will often/usually push them to a game you can't beat. What's the problem?

Carl

[AL78]

bluenikki, on 2022-April-08, 06:47, said:

Competition will often/usually push them to a game you can't beat. What's the problem?

Carl

The problem is I have little confidence in my judgement in competitive auctions, and this is an example of what happens when I take a more cautious view. It doesn't help when I get the "I would have overcalled with your hand" response opposite.

[DavidKok]

I think 2♠ on the first round is fine but not mandatory. It is a worse call on the second round - if you are going to stick your neck out, don't wait for them to ascertain the degree of their fit. I don't think South has any reason to object to you passing throughout.

[Douglas43]

This hand is a good illustration of the downside to the theory that with a weak no-trump you should play natural run-outs to 2♥ and 2♠. Against (1NT) P (2♥) P (P) you have routine reopening 2♠ bid.

For what it's worth I wouldn't come in on a 5332 shape at a score other than love-all, except to balance

[apollo1201]

DavidKok, on 2022-April-08, 07:33, said:

I think 2♠ on the first round is fine but not mandatory. It is a worse call on the second round - if you are going to stick your neck out, don't wait for them to ascertain the degree of their fit. I don't think South has any reason to object to you passing throughout.

Agree with David. If you don’t do it at once (and it is not clear), it is extremely doubtful to do it after. Opps could already exchange info cheaply. And E might have lots. And if E is broke, partner might find a call other than pass.

Which makes me think a playful S might balance 2S, though. Not w/o risk but partner’s points rate to be well positioned.

So she was again quick at pointing your supposed mistakes to better put her own under the carpet…

[bluenikki]

apollo1201, on 2022-April-08, 11:21, said:

Agree with David. If you don’t do it at once (and it is not clear), it is extremely doubtful to do it after. Opps could already exchange info cheaply. And E might have lots. And if E is broke, partner might find a call other than pass.

Which makes me think a playful S might balance 2S, though. Not w/o risk but partner’s points rate to be well positioned.

So she was again quick at pointing your supposed mistakes to better put her own under the carpet…

Has nobody but me noticed the missed game?

Are you opponents so oblivious that they won't allow themselves to be pushed to it?

[mikeh]

DavidKok, on 2022-April-08, 07:33, said:

I think 2♠ on the first round is fine but not mandatory. It is a worse call on the second round - if you are going to stick your neck out, don't wait for them to ascertain the degree of their fit. I don't think South has any reason to object to you passing throughout.

I think 2S on the first round is very poor. You have defence. You don’t have a 6 card suit and you have sterile shape. You’re vulnerable so down 2 undoubted is a terrible result and any double is worse.

As a weak notrumper, I encourage overcalls on hands like these

Of course bidding can work. That’s why the game is so appealing. It’s almost impossible to ‘prove’ who is right…even simulations don’t help much because on many hands the other players might or might not act optimally (from the simulations POV)

The weak notrump wins some and loses some. In my view, the best way to play against the weak notrump, or any method that creates problems, is not to fight it. Don’t go chasing moonbeams, even though they’re sometimes out there to be caught.

This layout leaves you likely below average….the OP says he got 50%. I’d be delighted with 50%. But even if it was 30%, I’d not risk a zero chasing an average.

I agree with the observation that this hand shows a downside to those who play 1N p 2M as to play.

Btw, I play that😧

I’m happy to do so. Our 2H bid could be on as much as a 10 count or even a soft 11 (1N is 11-13 white for us..if 12-14, then lower the 2M range accordingly). That means we can happily double 2S if we have a maximum with 3 spades…partner can pull to 3H or 2N if he thinks defending is wrong but it usually isn’t unless he has 4 hearts.

Again, our methods get bad results sometimes. We play them because the corollaries are, in our view, worth the occasional cost.

Here, I’d pass over 1N and of course one can hardly pass then bid over 2H, giving responder a fielder’s choice on many hands.

[eagles123]

Absolute resulting rubbish from your (as per usual) clueless partner.

[bluenikki]

bluenikki, on 2022-April-08, 17:11, said:

Has nobody but me noticed the missed game?

Are you opponents so oblivious that they won't allow themselves to be pushed to it?

And if they bid the game, is your side going to save or double?

Save pays, but not as well as passing out 2♥

[mycroft]

50-50:

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but the advantage of direct 2M bids is:

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where good agreements mean that you can bid with this hand and partner knows that you aren't 17, 18 and missing game.

All arguments that "on this hand, par is 4♥" aside (even slight changes in partner's hand and you're likely only -1 in 4♠x), the ability to make 2 kinds of 2♠ bids in *both* seats is an actual thing.

Having said that, we play transfers (because Keri, and because it's just easier in the "stare at 1NT opener, with 'aren't you going to say anything?' face after 1NT-2♥" world I play in. And, frankly, because I don't play against many pairs who do have a sound agreement about the difference between 1NT-2red (bid) and 1NT-2red;2M-p (bid).).