[AL78]

How would you bid these cards, dealer North?

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[LBengtsson]

Having Kokish here will help. 2♣ - 2♦(wait) - 2♥ (Kokish) - 2♠(wait) - 3♦(second suit) etc. but how does declarer find out about ♥Jxx ♦Qxx as specific cards, and whilst partner will know these cards are important the exact sequence to reach 6♥ I am not sure of, though I feel I would reach that contract btw. Good hand to post.

[smerriman]

Even if partner has the worst possible raise to 3♥ like xxx xxx xxx KQJx, we still have chances to make 6, so I don't think we can ever stop short of that. How to reach 7, I don't know.

[mikeh]

How one bids hands like these is entirely dependent on methods. Experienced expert pairs spend a lot of time on methods to handle rare but important hands

In my current main partnership:

2C. 2D
2H. 2S
3C. 3H
3S. 4C
4S. 4N
5D. 6D
7H


Maybe. Not a high level of confidence

2D promises 1+ control and denies a few rare hands but is otherwise vague

2H is birthright (aka kokish), forces 2S

3C shows diamonds

3H shows a preference for hearts

3S cue

4C cue (we would not cue the club King here, since opener has a red 2suiter and we’ve shown at least one control, so we could sign off in 4H with a bad hand in context)

4S keycard. Given that partner has shown the club Ace, our void is no longer an impediment

4N. 1 or 4 keys

5D. Asks for third round control ( I don’t think responder should cooperate with xx xx in the reds)

6D….I have third round control but nothing else to show

7H. Optimistic conclusion

As I say, I don’t have a high level of confidence in this.

[AL78]

I'm impressed if you have the methods to reach 7♥ which is an excellent contract.

If you are in 7♥ and get a passive trump lead, what line of play do you take? Is there anything better than drawing trumps, testing the diamonds ending in dummy, cash the club ace throwing the diamond if they don't break, and going for the spade finesse (if the diamonds are 3-3 13 tricks are there)?

[DavidKok]

2♣*-2♦* (waiting);
2♥* (Kokish)-2♠* (waiting/forced);
3♦ (5(+)♥, 4+♦, not the best way to play it but that's all I've got)-3♥ (confirms hearts as trump, not a garbage hand);
3♠ (control)-4♣ (shows club control, denies a spade control. Can be the king);
4NT (a gamble - maybe 4♦ Last Train is better, since partner can bid 4♠ as a positive waiting bid, having previously denied a spade control with 4♣. We are always bidding to at least 5♥)-5♣ (1/4);
5NT (asks for extras - 5♦ would ask for the ♥Q, 5♥ would be to play, 5♠ would ask for kings)-6♦ (that's extra! Note that partner did not ask for kings, so I think in an ideal world 6♣ should show extras in spades, not clubs. With running clubs, e.g. ♣AKQx, just bid 7);
7♥ (2 spades, 6 hearts, 3 diamonds, 1 club is 12, and there's excellent chances for the 13th in diamonds (break 3-3 or partner could have the jack or a fourth diamond as well or ruff if partner has 3 and the hearts split 2-2) or spades (finesse) or squeeze chances.

Opener can opt for 6♦ instead of 5NT, asking specifically for a third round control. That's a bit of a guess - if partner has got ♦xx and the jack of hearts 7♥ is excellent (just ruff two diamonds and pitch a spade on the club ace), and 5NT won't get me there. But 5NT also allows partner to show the ♠Q if they have it, and e.g. ♠Qxxx is also enough (now we have two diamond discards on a spade and a club). Since partner showed a non-minimum with 3♥ I think playing them for an ace and a queen makes more sense, but it's probably close. On this deal both approaches work.

[mw64ahw]

A traditional
2♣ - 2♦ (0-7hcp/waiting)
2♥ - 3♥ (shows mild slam interest)
I would cue-bid above 3♥ to show stronger slam interest
followed by Itl Q bids (I use even with all controls as this allows responder to show additional values) & Kickbo.
3♠ (♠ ctrl) - 3NT (no ♥ honour)
4♣ (♣ ctrl) - 4♥ (no other ctrls implies A♣ given the mild SI)
4♠ (must be 4KCs) - 5♦ (Q♦ since a ♦ ctrl has already been denied)
6/7♥ with 7 making when opps. are 3-3♦ or on the Q♠ finesse with a discard also available on A♣

[DavidKok]

mw64ahw, on 2022-March-31, 02:47, said:

4♥ (no other ctrls implies A♣ given the mild SI)
4♠ (must be 4KCs) - 5♦ (Q♦ since a ♦ ctrl has already been denied)
6/7♥ with 7 making when opps. are 3-3♦ or on the Q♠ finesse with a discard also available on A♣

All of these look like fantasy inferences to me.

[PeterAlan]

AL78, on 2022-March-31, 02:09, said:

If you are in 7♥ and get a passive trump lead, what line of play do you take? Is there anything better than drawing trumps, testing the diamonds ending in dummy, cash the club ace throwing the diamond if they don't break, and going for the spade finesse (if the diamonds are 3-3 13 tricks are there)?

On a detail of this line, if trumps are 2-2 you can pitch the ♠ on ♣A and ruff the fourth ♦.

[AL78]

PeterAlan, on 2022-March-31, 05:25, said:

On a detail of this line, if trumps are 2-2 you can pitch the ♠ on ♣A and ruff the fourth ♦.

Yes, if trumps are 2-2 it is trivial. I was thinking if trumps don't break evenly.

[DavidKok]

You can slightly improve on that line by using two of dummy's high hearts to cross and ruff two small clubs (with high hearts), if the clubs split 6-3 or worse a squeeze may develop. You can also play for a diamond-spade squeeze instead of the finesse, which has the benefit of letting you cash the spade AK (a Vienna coup, I think?) so you can cater to queen doubleton offside (of course you always cash a high spade early so you always win with singleton spade queen offside). If East has a singleton heart I think this is percentage, with a tripleton (or with all four) vacant spaces suggests against it. I don't see a better line than that one, but it is most likely that I'm missing something.

[mw64ahw]

DavidKok, on 2022-March-31, 05:12, said:

All of these look like fantasy inferences to me.

Nope - that's what my simulator produced so just logic applied.

[DavidKok]

There are plenty of hands where I'd show mild slam interest over 2♥ without an ace, in particular with extra heart length. It logically follows that you do not. Do you have a different way to show those?

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2022-March-31, 02:23, said:

2♣*-2♦* (waiting);
2♥* (Kokish)-2♠* (waiting/forced);
3♦ (5(+)♥, 4+♦, not the best way to play it but that's all I've got)-3♥ (confirms hearts as trump, not a garbage hand);
3♠ (control)-4♣ (shows club control, denies a spade control. Can be the king);
4NT (a gamble - maybe 4♦ Last Train is better, since partner can bid 4♠ as a positive waiting bid, having previously denied a spade control with 4♣. We are always bidding to at least 5♥)-5♣ (1/4);
5NT (asks for extras - 5♦ would ask for the ♥Q, 5♥ would be to play, 5♠ would ask for kings)-6♦ (that's extra! Note that partner did not ask for kings, so I think in an ideal world 6♣ should show extras in spades, not clubs. With running clubs, e.g. ♣AKQx, just bid 7);
7♥ (2 spades, 6 hearts, 3 diamonds, 1 club is 12, and there's excellent chances for the 13th in diamonds (break 3-3 or partner could have the jack or a fourth diamond as well or ruff if partner has 3 and the hearts split 2-2) or spades (finesse) or squeeze chances.

Opener can opt for 6♦ instead of 5NT, asking specifically for a third round control. That's a bit of a guess - if partner has got ♦xx and the jack of hearts 7♥ is excellent (just ruff two diamonds and pitch a spade on the club ace), and 5NT won't get me there. But 5NT also allows partner to show the ♠Q if they have it, and e.g. ♠Qxxx is also enough (now we have two diamond discards on a spade and a club). Since partner showed a non-minimum with 3♥ I think playing them for an ace and a queen makes more sense, but it's probably close. On this deal both approaches work.

We would have the identical auction as far as 6♦ but the meanings of some of the bids would be different. Our 2♦ is negative rather than waiting and we give a positive with an ace and a king so partner will show A♣/Q♦ and it will be known he has no more than another J or two or possibly ♠Q in a balanced hand, we would then ask for the ♠Q with 6♠and when we don't find it or ♦J settle for 7♥ rather than 7N.

[LBengtsson]

LBengtsson, on 2022-March-30, 20:51, said:

Having Kokish here will help. 2♣ - 2♦(wait) - 2♥ (Kokish) - 2♠(wait) - 3♦(second suit) etc. but how does declarer find out about ♥Jxx ♦Qxx as specific cards, and whilst partner will know these cards are important the exact sequence to reach 6♥ I am not sure of, though I feel I would reach that contract btw. Good hand to post.

I must have been half asleep when I posted this. There are three reasonable ways for 7♥ to make, plus a squeeze option. It is more easy to reach 7♥ in Precision - as long as I am not half asleep lol! - as there are specific control bids (as in mikeh auction).

[mw64ahw]

DavidKok, on 2022-March-31, 07:24, said:

There are plenty of hands where I'd show mild slam interest over 2♥ without an ace, in particular with extra heart length. It logically follows that you do not. Do you have a different way to show those?

I doubt North can think of plenty of such hands when holding AK/AK/AK/void, but the simulator may try with ♥s & say KQJTx♣ and a singleton/void. If North is lacking then moving to 4 is a sign-off.

[nullve]

AL78, on 2022-March-30, 15:58, said:

How would you bid these cards, dealer North?

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nullve-nullve:

2♣(1)-2♥(2)
3♣(3)-3♦(4)
4♣(5)-4♠(6)
4N(7)-5♣(8)
5N(9)-6♣(10)
6♦(11)-6♠(12)
6N(13)-7♥(14)
P

(1) Multi: a) "0-9", either 6(+)M3-OM or 5M4+m3-OM b) "22+", unBAL with primary hearts
(2) c) P/C (opposite a)) with either 2H2+S or 3H3+S d) INV (also opposite a)) with 5+H2-S
(3) "22+", 5+H4+D, neither (exactly) 5-5 nor 4540
(4) relay
(5) 3640 (and 21+ (non-walrus) hcp)
(6) parity key card ask agreeing H
(7) even # of key cards
(8) trump Q ask
(9) trump Q, ♦K, ♠K, no ♦Q
(10) ♠Q ask
(11) no ♠Q
(12) ♦J ask
(13) no ♦J
(14) contract

[Gilithin]

LBengtsson, on 2022-March-30, 20:51, said:

Having Kokish here will help.

Without Kokish North can find out about ♥xxx, ♣A and ♦Q trivially. With Kokish it seems to me to be much more difficult as South will not raise immediately. I do not really understand why you think it is an advantage here.

[Cyberyeti]

Gilithin, on 2022-March-31, 22:53, said:

Without Kokish North can find out about ♥xxx, ♣A and ♦Q trivially. With Kokish it seems to me to be much more difficult as South will not raise immediately. I do not really understand why you think it is an advantage here.

It's probably not an advantage in this auction, the only thing you get to show is your secondary diamonds before you get to 3♥. This might matter more if partner had xx, Jxx, Qxxx, KQxx.