[inquiry]

Jlall, on Jun 21 2005, 01:13 PM, said:

3D since ELC was not specified (and I do not play it anyways). If the opps bid 3H, which is likely, I can bid spades. If the opps pass and partner passes, I may have missed spades but I cannot handle club bids from partner if I X. We also miss 5D saves/games etc. My hand is very suitable for offense but surely I can't X and bid FIVE diamonds over a 4H bid. And what will I do when partner bids 5C over their 4H bid. Even ELC does not solve all problems. If I bid 3D and ANYBODY bids I will be MUCH better off than had I Xed. If it goes all pass, I may still be better off.

Ok if this is how you want to play, it is a fine method. But for me, as usual, my opinions in competitive auctions are shaped very much on my understanding of Robson/Segal's methods.

Here is what they say about bidding over opponent's opening preempts (see page 205)

Quote

Two ‘rules’ will allow you to bid effectively in this very troubled area.

(1) Don’t double on one-suited hands over preemptive openings. You’re under quite enough pressure when the enemy has preempted, without making matters worse by trying to get too cute on one-suited hands. Just bid your suit. Jump if necessary. (WJOs don’t apply over preempts.)

They follow this up with sound advise, that I have some trouble getting others to agree... For instance, in discussing how to keep the bidding flexible, they suggest that the following auction....

(2S)-DBL-(Pass)-3D
(Ps)-3H

Shows five hearts, no particular diamond fit, and a club suit. This for them is never a GOSH despite it is not Equal level conversion (again on page 205). They recommend should you have such an outstanding hand (which their rule one suggest against), your jump on the suit in the first round.

BTW, their second rule deals with when is a double and new suit gosh. They dont' use Equal level conversion exactly.. they play...

Quote

(2) Over a non-preemptive opening, you only show a GOSH opposite a minimum response, if you make a new-suit bid  that would have been a jump overcall of the opening bid.

Thus,

(2C*) - DBL - (pass) - 2H   2C = precision
(Pass)- 2S

Here, 2S, despite not being an equal level conversion is not GOSH since that is what the overcall would have been if you had called in spades. This just shows diamonds and spades.

I find these methods pleasing to my style of bidding. Sadly, only misho and rado seem to play them just as written by Robson. :-(

[han]

I double because I like to play equal level conversion. If this was not discussed then I would bid 3D.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

3D.

In my partnership, I could bid 2S, followed by a
Diamond bid, which would show longer diamonds
then spades. At least we did agree, to play it that
way, but I never tried it out in the real world.
This style is advocated by Marshall Miles, and I
think, it has merrits.

I will not double, because if I hear clubs, I will be
in real trouble.

Marlowe

[omeroj]

16 votes for double---18 for 3♦ i thinked that this hand was simple....lol i can see that in the bridge all is difficoult, we can't talk about simple hand, or simple bid:)

Omero

[SoTired]

i believe equal level conversion is assumed when doubling a preempt, since you can jump to show a stronger hand. Also, dbling and bidding your own suit does not show a strong hand. So I always double a heart preempt with this type of hand.

[Al_U_Card]

I voted for 3D. The more I think about it, with only 12 hcp, if I pass what are the likely outcomes? LHO passes and pard, who is unpassed btw, can dbl or bid spades or even clubs (then i can bid 3H to ask for a stopper). Will we get pre-empted out of a game? Not if pard has the values for it. If I act and they jack the pre-empt, pard will act based on my bid, which may cause more harm than good. Pass is looking better and better......

[SoTired]

right, leaping michaels means that a simple minor overcall may have a large upper limit. That's it's price. Don't forget you still have the direct q-bid, which reverts to its older rock meaning.

I like to reserve the dbl for hands that want to hear from advancer. The X + bid = unsure about support for advancer's suit. Would not dbl without at least 2 in unbid minor or 3 in unbid major.

[bearmum]

I voted for 3♦ as IMO I do not have sufficient to X and then bid diamonds if P bids clubs

Partner hasn't bid yet and might even be able to either
a. bid spades himself
b. support my diamonds

[Double !]

This, IMO, is a matter of partnership agreement. If playing equal level conversions, then double seems to be reasonable. If not, or if unsure, then 3 diamonds is safer. Partner is going to need either a good fit or some good cards over there to help take care of some of your losers, so chances are P will be able to find a bid over 3D if there's a game to be made. Double is good when lho decides to up the ante by bidding 4 hearts. Matter of what you choose. Interior sequence in diamonds is also good for potentially setting up the diamond suit.

[omeroj]

I have a question.
Who vote for 3 ♦ play the lebenshol?
And why you can't play 2♠ in this hand?Only if bid double can play 2 ♠
If your p have 4♠ 4-3-2 with 2♦ will pass on 3♦ and you can go 1 down when can make 2♠.
I repeat that in the italian forum the 90% of votes are for double, in this forum the 42% lol, this is very nice:)))


Omero

[whereagles]

Double, even if not playing equal level correction (which by the way is a almost a must after preempts).

[omeroj]

Could i know why we can't play 2♠ in this hand?
If you bid 3♦ can't play the spades too if your p have 5♣ 4♠3♥1♦ is very good contract 3♦ with 6-1....
There are 24 votes for 3♦ and i again don't undestand as i can bid 3♦


I wait your answers...

Omero

[Al_U_Card]

omeroj, on Jun 22 2005, 04:51 AM, said:

Could i know why we can't play 2♠ in this hand?
If you bid 3♦ can't play the spades too if your p have 5♣ 4♠3♥1♦ is very good contract 3♦ with 6-1....
There are 24 votes for 3♦ and i again don't undestand as i can bid 3♦


I wait your answers...

Omero

Since you want to play 2S so badly, you will need pard to have 4S cards and about 11 hcp. If he has that, then pass as he will double to reopen and YOU will bid 2S (or will you bid 3S to show your great passed hand? 2-edged swords cut often and deep . )

Bidding 3D wins when pard has just about any other hand as both pard and LHO are unpassed. The hand has lots of offense and a nice trump suit in D. Preempts are often indicative of the other major breaking badly so Spades might not be such a sweet deal with a 4-1 break.

[Al_U_Card]

omeroj, on Jun 22 2005, 02:33 AM, said:

I have a question.
Who vote for 3 ♦ play the lebenshol?

If you play Lebensohl and pard bids 2NT, do you bypass 3C to show your diamonds? if pard is broke with 6C and 4H, 3C may be the place to play.

[mr1303]

Depends on whether I play Equal Level Conversion or not. If not, then I bid 3C after 2NT, and hope that 3C isn't a dreadful contract.

[Free]

3♦, gives me a headstart in describing my hand accurately.

[cherdano]

Jlall, on Jun 22 2005, 03:20 PM, said:

I don't really understand, does nobody else expect further competition? You are horribly placed if the opponents do bid 3 or 4 hearts. You are horribly placed if partner competes in clubs. On the other hand, you are in great shape if you have bid 3D. You can next bid spades, completing a good description of your hand. If the spades and hearts were reversed and they opened 2S I could certainly understand a X alot more. This may be it for the heart suit. But in this case, if we start with 3D the spade suit is not gone forever unless it goes all pass.

I bid 3♦ for the same reason, but I am not as confident. Balancing 3♠ over 3♥ seems fine, but while I would bid 4♠ over 4♥, I don't feel very good about it. Isn't it an overbid?

Arend

Edit: P.S.: If you play ELC, I assume you have to agree that after 2♥ X 4♥ P P, bidding 4♠ can show this hand type (two places to play -- with 3 of them, X again, with only spades, bid 3 or 4 spades immediately)?

[omeroj]

if my p have 6♣ i could play too 3 ♣ but play always 3♦ id few....when i can play 2♠ or 3♣, if i bid 3♦ can't find the spades and there are few spaces of bid

Omero