[Chamaco]

Jlall, on Jun 17 2005, 03:48 PM, said:

That is my point, I don't base it on 3HX vs 3N. I base it on 3N vs 3N. If I think I have a fair shot at 3N, i'll bid it. I don't expect a reopening X so I won't trap with 4 trumps.

Justin,
you mean you will never try to penalize opps in this sequence if you have 1-4-4-4 and invitational+ values ?

Is it either 3NT or 3H undoubled and never defend 3H doubled ?

I have to admit I'd find this rather surprising, but I am no expert so I won't argue further...

[luis]

Chamaco, on Jun 17 2005, 04:05 PM, said:

Jlall, on Jun 17 2005, 03:48 PM, said:

That is my point, I don't base it on 3HX vs 3N. I base it on 3N vs 3N. If I think I have a fair shot at 3N, i'll bid it. I don't expect a reopening X so I won't trap with 4 trumps.

Justin,
you mean you will never try to penalize opps in this sequence if you have 1-4-4-4 and invitational+ values ?

Is it either 3NT or 3H undoubled and never defend 3H doubled ?

I have to admit I'd find this rather surprising, but I am no expert so I won't argue further...

I'm also passing and will bid 3NT over pd reopening dbl so I'm in a 100% agreement with Justin. My reasons may differ so let me explain you why I do this and it may be interesting to know if Justin has different or similar motives.

In my partnerships we are encouraged to open light, a 1s opening can be specially light since we try not to pass when we have spades, if you can stablish a spade fit early the auction can be very difficult for your opponents.
Since we don't play penalty doubles when opener is short in the suit they overcall opener is forced to reopen with a double even with a light hand since I could have passed with a very strong hand when I have their suit. So we tend not to make a penalty pass of the reopening double when we really don't have strong holding in their suit and there's a good alternative.
In this hand 3NT may or may not make and 3h may or may not make but I'm sure that playing 3N is a safer alternative than leaving 3h doubled. This the sort of compromise you have to make when you have the style I describe.

[Chamaco]

Jlall, on Jun 17 2005, 04:13 PM, said:

Again, I will not risk a pass if I think i have a shot at 3N. This doesn't mean I will never play for penalties.

x QJ9x Axxx Qxxx I would pass, and then pass a X. I do not think i have a good shot at 3N so will not bid it directly over 3H. If it goes all pass that is fine with me (though obviously I would have preferred a X).

If i had x QJ9x AKxx KJxx, I would bid 3N. It is too risky that partner will pass if I pass

Sorry, Justin, I do not want to sound annoying, but I was not clear before, it's my fault.

My point is:
assume you have 1-4-4-4, with values insufficient to bid 3NT right away.

bidding goes:
1♠-(3♥)-pass-(pass)
DBL-(pass)-?

At THIS point (e.g. you do not risk no longer to leave 3H undoubled), say you have exactly 10 hcp in 1-4-4-4,
what are your considerations in terms of values and suit texture, in deciding whether to penalty pass or bid 3NT ?

[Al_U_Card]

Having not made a negative double to start, pard is now offering you a choice. The balancing double removes a K from your hand, so now would you bid? Hopefully not! You will pass and collect your five tricks; S, S ruff (or natural H trick) and 3 tricks in the minors etc.

[PriorKnowledge]

Some additional thoughts:
J J10xx Jxxx AKxx opposite an avg 1S opener will not make 3N. Give opener something like AQxxx x AQxx Jxx or KQxxx x KQx QJxx and 3N (and 3H) are down. If opener has less, 3H might even make.

So an immediate 3N does not appear wise.

That leaves us with the immediate pass and decision over partner's subsequent reopening dbl.

If we give opener more so that 3N makes like AKxxx x KQx QJxx, 3H is still only down 2. Since overcaller probably has 7h for the 3H bid, 3H is likely only down 3 at most no matter how strong opener.

So it boils down to your opening bid and reopening dbl style:

If your style is lite openers and lite reopening dbls, I guess you have to pull to 3N because 3H might make.

If your style is normal openers and reopening dbls, 3HX is probably your best spot.

If your style requires the reopening 3-level dbl has extras, then 3N is your best spot.

[omeroj]

I think as i wrote in the italian forum that the right bid could to be pass, but at the same time is an aggressive bid and make it with an few optimism.
If i play on bbo i will bid always double.

Omero:)

P.S. Sry for my bad english

[Chamaco]

Jlall, on Jun 17 2005, 05:31 PM, said:

would depend on my honor location, specifically in hearts, etc.

Yes I know it depends from honor location, even I can realize that , but that is a vague statement.

I was hoping to hear more in detail, concretely, the type of reasoning an expert like you would make in terms of honors location and suit texture when deciding whether to leave dbl in vs bid 3NT, nobody vuln.