[elbec]

Hi all,

all non-vulnerable the bidding goes:
1♠ of your partner - 3♥ preempt of the opponent and you hold:

J
J10xx
J98x
AKxx

What would have you bid?

Thank you very much for your answers.

Alberto

[mr1303]

Pass. I want to defend. When it goes pass pass X I'll pass again.

[kgr]

I play Double is take-out, so I will not do that.

3NT can easily by too high and I expect partner to open with a double. H will break bad for opps and I expect to make 3 tricks.

Problem is that I should pass after the mandatory pause period after the jump is finished. If I think too long then partner gets UI and maybe will not be able to double anymore.

[luke warm]

i'd pass, hoping for a reopening x

[inquiry]

Pass, Fully expecting partner to reopen with a double as he will be short in their suit.

[Chamaco]

I am also a passer here, for many reasons (misfit, AK in clubs, length in trumps, marginal values for game) but I have a further hand evaluationn question to the folk here:

Can you construct and some CONCRETE example hands that would decide to bid here 3NT instead of trap-passing, holding exactly the same shape (1-4-4-4) ?

Could you then explain what makes you lean towards 3Nt instead of trap-pass, both an MP and at IMPS?

Thanks !!!

Mauro

[Fluffy]

seems nearly unanimous vote here

[mr1303]

Hmmm.

Nope, I can't think of any. Why would I want to bid 3NT when I have:

a) No source of trickw
No fit
c) Defensive values

And any 1444 hand with enough to bid here has enough to extract a big penalty against 3H

[FrancesHinden]

Chamaco, on Jun 17 2005, 08:13 AM, said:

Could you then explain what makes you lean towards 3Nt instead of trap-pass, both an MP and at IMPS?

There is no certainty that 3NT is making on the example hand.
Make it stronger, and 3NT is more tempting.

So, for example,

J
K10xx
QJ9x
AKxx

I would bid 3NT vulnerable against not at all forms of scoring. At matchpoints I might try passing at equal vul, hoping for 800 or more. Game all at imps I would probably not risk it, as 3H might end the auction.

In addition, the heart suit is not ideal for playing 3NT, as you can't duck. Suppose RHO has AKQxxx, partner has a singleton and LHO a doubleton. Now RHO ducks the heart lead and you have to make the next 8 tricks without losing the lead. OK, that scenario is not that likely, but it's still a consideration when deciding whether to bid 3NT or not.

[luis]

Pass but if pd reopens with a double I will bid 3NT.

[P_Marlowe]

Hi,

I am not sure, what i would bid at the table,
if partner will always reopen with shortage,
even with bare minimum, I would double for
take out , otherwise I will pass.

Marlowe

[mr1303]

If, as most people think, partner's reopening double does not promise any extras, only shows shortage in hearts, then I'm not convinced that bidding 3NT later is better than bidding it now. If anything, partner's shortage is even worse for 3NT, because this increases the likelyhood that LHO may have something of a heart fit.

[P_Marlowe]

mr1303, on Jun 17 2005, 09:55 AM, said:

If, as most people think, partner's reopening double does not promise any extras, only shows shortage in hearts, then I'm not convinced that bidding 3NT later is better than bidding it now. If anything, partner's shortage is even worse for 3NT, because this increases the likelyhood that LHO may have something of a heart fit.

Hi,

I was a little be surprised, that this was the main view,
i.e. that partner is required to reopen with shortage,
if this is the cae, I think passing is very dangerous,
especially if one takes into account, what passes
as an opening bid for some players today.

Marlowe

[Chamaco]

Jlall, on Jun 17 2005, 03:20 PM, said:

at the 3H level I think partner will have some extras to reopen. It's just too high for partner to be reopening a 5143 11 count. I would pass, not to trap but because I don't feel I have enough to bid. I'll try 3N if he does X

Justin,
what makes you think 3NT will score better than 3HX ?

See also my side question on this thread:
holdin 1-4-4-4, which suit texture and hcp values considerations do you apply to decide whether defend doubled or bid 3NT (nobody vuln) ?

[PriorKnowledge]

Pass and then pass partner's X

If my partner reopens with a 5143 11-count, I better pass, because it is much more likely we'll get 5 tricks defending hearts than 9 tricks declaring NT. I pass even if I think partner will pass out with a min hand.

Do you really want to force to the 4m level with this hand by making a negative double? Do you really want to bid 3N opposite a min opener?

I'd rather pass out a 3H bd and hope to set it.

Hey - Sometimes preempts work

[Chamaco]

Jlall, on Jun 17 2005, 03:31 PM, said:

with 1444 (and a stopper) if I ever thought I had enough to have some confidence of making 3N, I would bid 3N.

Sure, but my question should basically read as:
"On which criteria do you base your evaluation that 3NT has better prospects than 3HX?"

[Al_U_Card]

Does anyone play negative doubles to 4D? I would negative double showing my 4-4 in the minors and 10 hcp.Since pard will know that I don't have a lot of S and rate to have a few H (even if my LHO raises to 4H) he will know what to do.