[pclayton]

White / White, IMP pairs with a very good pard:

xx
ATxxxx
xx
AKx

You open 1♥ and pard bids 2♣. You rebid 2♥ and pard raises to 3♥.

2♣ is 100% GF
2♥ doesn't promise 6
3♥ is vague and only denies the ability to splinter or make a picture jump.

Your agreements are 'Frivolous 3N' (where 3N denies slam interest) and a cue shows slam interest.

What is your call?

[Blofeld]

3NT for me.

I don't believe my hand constitutes a slam try, but I'll be very happy to cooperate with any that partner wants to make (over 4♦ I'll bid blackwood).

[reisig]

4♣ - my hand is not bad (AK in pard's suit and 6th ♥

[Echognome]

Are we playing 1st/2nd round controls? If so I like 4♣ as it denies first or second round control in spades and we know that if partner cuebids 4♦ then at least we don't have 2 quick losers in spades. Partner can then decide whether to sign off or to continue cue-bidding.

If we are playing only 1st round controls, then I bid 3NT (which will deny 1st round spade control) as I will have a harder time judging whether to move over 4♦.

[inquiry]

I will bid 4C (showing slam interest) I like my prime values (ACE and KING), and I love my club fitting honors (AK in partners suit), my hand, while not all that good, is still darn good for this auction. I would prefer to be playing serious 3NT where I would make the same identical 4♣ bid.. lol.. denying slam interest but showing fitting clubs... :-)

Now, about that 2♥ bid.. come on, 2♣ is game force, and all your values are in clubs.. we both know you should have raised clubs last time EVEN IF 2♥ doesn't promise six. The auction would be much easier on us if it was...

1H-2C
3C-3H
3N

Now we have shown our hand properly

[Free]

I don't see immediate slam interestin in this 7 loser hand with poor trumps. So I'll bid 3NT...

[mike777]

4c
We have limited our hand with 2h and p knows we have some 11-13 6 card nothing hand often so..........
1) advantage of p thinking we never have anything
2) we have failed to cuebid spades
3) Over 4h we can cuebid 5d if we have something,,,,over 4d we can bid 4H.
4) With basic 14 hcp hand p could have just bid 4h...so 3H shows extra something.

P has to have at least:

AXX=KQ=KXX=QXXXX at worst and expect more than this for 3H.

[Al_U_Card]

5H, pard will look at his hand, know that you have Club honors and bid 6H or pass as appropriate. (would 5NT by pard be pick a slam, GSF or asking for trouble?.....lol) Is it reasonable to expect pard to hold Ax(x) Kx(x) Ax QJxxxx or such for his bids?

[pclayton]

Dammit I knew that you Justin roflmao.

Richie is the first person that agrees with my 4C call (sick minds think alike )

Give pard a vanilla Ax Kxx Axx QJxxx and we will play 4H when 7 is reasonable and 6 is odds on. Will pard cooperate with a slam try over our friv 3N? I seriously doubt it.

I don't like Bens idea about raising clubs 1st. It will bury the hearts if we have a 6-2 fit permanently. As a matter of fact I would say 3C denies 6 hearts as a rule. And my 4C only shows at least the QC here.1st priority is to get to the best game - slam investigations come later.

[mike777]

Jlall, on Jun 14 2005, 01:50 PM, said:

how did we limit our hand? 2H can still be 19 points with 6 hearts right?

I assume 1H=2c=3H is different from 1H=2c=2h
With that said sure we can have 14-16 but P will play me for 11-13 or worse.

x = AJT9xxx=Txx = Kx Dealer Both vul.

[mike777]

Jlall, on Jun 14 2005, 02:04 PM, said:

I dont understand why if you can have 11-13 or 14-16 pard would play you for 11-13. This is the point of serious 3N to distinguish between max and min. Many 2/1 players that I know play 3H is solid (or maybe 1 loser) hearts in that auction. 2H is still your 11-19 or 20. If that is your range serious 3N shows the UPPER end of that, e.g  11-14=min 15-19=serious. This is for sure a great min hand, but I think that is all it is, not a serious 3N. But that is why this thread is here.

What is the difference between 3nt or 4h rebid by opener on this auction after 3h by responder? I have only played 3nt serious version so I can cue 4c to show ace but often minimum hand type.

[Stephen Tu]

It would seem to be a lot better to play 3♠ as the frivolous flag when hearts are trumps, so that one can cue 4♣ over partner's expected 3nt spade cue, without having overbid your hand quite so much. But with the limitations of the system given, I guess I'd rather bid 4♣ than 3nt since it's going to be hard for partner to be enthusiastic over 3nt missing the ♣AK.

[inquiry]

pclayton, on Jun 14 2005, 02:59 PM, said:

I don't like Bens idea about raising clubs 1st. It will bury the hearts if we have a 6-2 fit permanently. As a matter of fact I would say 3C denies 6 hearts as a rule. And my 4C only shows at least the QC here.1st priority is to get to the best game - slam investigations come later.

Let's see.. 2♥, by your own admission "2♥ doesn't promise 6". So 2♥ does not show six. The feature in your hand is club AK, which is why you are bending over backwards to show a "good hand" with 4♣ on this 11 hcp, empty heart suit, hand.

And quite frankly rule where you must rebid a six card suit, but the rebid doesn't promise a six card suit, seems, to me too odd for words. Add to this some people play the 2♥ bid to be unlimited over 2♣ and now the 4♣ bid makes no sense whatsoever. ....

Bid 3♣, make your life easier.

Ben

[beatrix45]

pclayton, on Jun 14 2005, 09:54 AM, said:

Your agreements are 'Frivolous 3N' (where 3N denies slam interest) and a cue shows slam interest.

I have two questions.

1) I am assuming that my choices here are: cue bid, frivolous 3NT, and a fast arrival 4♥. In general, what does each bid show in your system?

2) What can I expect from partner? Would it normally be a game going hand with a club suit and three card heart support?

And one observation.

My cue bid in this auction looks to me to be "for free". It does not use up bidding space, so maybe the bottom of its range should be low enough to include the hand I hold. In the very old days, after a 1♠ - Pass - 3♠ (forcing) - Pass - ??? auction, bidding 4♠ constituted virtually a warning that my hand was a poor one for slam purposes. This hand having six trumps, three quick tricks and a secondary suit fit is much, much better than a minimum.

[Winstonm]

4C for me. This cue bid in partner's suit should I think show some type of secondary support - not just Ace of King - and sends the message that your club suit may provide a source of tricks for slam. After this, I will sign off in 4H; if partner can cue bid in both diamonds and spades, then I will complete my help type bidding with a further 5C bid. This should let partner know that QJxxx of clubs is worth 5 tricks to our side, and if he does happen to hold Axx, KQx, Ax, QJxxx we are off to the races.

WinstonM