[jillybean]

18 8 1520 37.0 1.0 7 NT S 13 J
8 3 1520 37.0 1.0 7 NT S 13 J
19 15 1020 33.0 5.0 6 NT N 13 3
5 18 1020 33.0 5.0 6 NT S 13 8
9 5 990 30.0 8.0 6 NT N 12 9
21 19 520 16.0 22.0 3 NT S 13 J
17 6 520 16.0 22.0 3 NT S 13 J
16 4 520 16.0 22.0 3 NT S 13 8
15 2 520 16.0 22.0 3 NT S 13 J
14 21 520 16.0 22.0 3 NT S 13 J
13 13 520 16.0 22.0 3 NT S 13 J
12 11 520 16.0 22.0 3 NT S 13 J
11 9 520 16.0 22.0 4 NT S 13 J
10 7 520 16.0 22.0 3 NT S 13 J
6 20 520 16.0 22.0 3 NT S 13 J
4 16 520 16.0 22.0 3 NT S 13
2 12 520 16.0 22.0 3 NT S 13 J
1 10 520 16.0 22.0 3 NT S 13 J
7 1 490 2.0 36.0 3 NT S 12
20 17 430 0.0 38.0 3 NT S 10 8

---

Dealer North, EW Vulnerable.

[AL78]

N S
P 2♣
2♦ 3NT
6NT

or

N S
P 2♣
2NT 6NT

depending on whether you always relay with 2♦ or whether you make a positive response with an AK or better.

The question is, assuming you play in 6NT and it is matchpoints, do you take the spade finesse for a 13th trick if a spade wasn't led at trick one?

[Stephen Tu]

 AL78, on 2021-July-06, 18:15, said:

The question is, assuming you play in 6NT and it is matchpoints, do you take the spade finesse for a 13th trick if a spade wasn't led at trick one?

Why is this a question? The finesse is free, unless you do something silly like try to cash both high hearts before you take it. The hook is way higher percentage than playing for say someone to have QJ doubleton of hearts or anything like that.

[smerriman]

Seems harder to get to 3NT than 6NT to be honest.. if you play Kokish relays then you start with 2♣ - 2♦ - 2N, while if you don't you start with 2♣ - 2♦ - 3N; in both cases, North can't stop in 3NT with that beautiful hand.

[nullve]

 Stephen Tu, on 2021-July-06, 19:56, said:

Why is this a question? The finesse is free, unless you do something silly like try to cash both high hearts before you take it. The hook is way higher percentage than playing for say someone to have QJ doubleton of hearts or anything like that.

The finesse almost certainly won't work against GiB(E) or a large percentage of bridge players who will strive to lead passively on this auction.

Against them it must be better to hope that the same player (realistically, West) has the ♠K and 5+ hearts.

[Cyberyeti]

 smerriman, on 2021-July-06, 21:13, said:

Seems harder to get to 3NT than 6NT to be honest.. if you play Kokish relays then you start with 2♣ - 2♦ - 2N, while if you don't you start with 2♣ - 2♦ - 3N; in both cases, North can't stop in 3NT with that beautiful hand.

I can see a lot of club players looking at their 7 count and knowing partner has 24-25 or worse 23-25 and leaving it in 3N.

With us I suspect 2♣-2♦(negative, upper range slightly higher than standard if balanced)-2♥(Kokish)-2♠(semi forced)-2N(24-25)-4N-6N

[Stephen Tu]

 nullve, on 2021-July-07, 02:22, said:

The finesse almost certainly won't work against GiB(E) or a large percentage of bridge players.

Against them it must be better to hope that the same player (realistically, West) has the ♠K and 5+ hearts.

Huh??? Unless you are talking about a spade opening lead from East from a player who can be counted on to never underlead K, I don't understand what you are talking about. Also the questioner I was answering specified spade not led at trick one.

If West is on lead I don't see why one would ever try weird non-finesse spade line. Also against human if in mixed ability field there are a lot who still lead away from K against 6nt.

[smerriman]

 nullve, on 2021-July-07, 02:22, said:

The finesse almost certainly won't work against GiB(E) or a large percentage of bridge players who will strive to lead passively on this auction.

Against them it must be better to hope that the same player (realistically, West) has the ♠K and 5+ hearts.

I think you misread something.. West is on lead, not East, so whether the opponents are GIB or not has nothing to do with anything.

[AL78]

 Stephen Tu, on 2021-July-06, 19:56, said:

Why is this a question? The finesse is free, unless you do something silly like try to cash both high hearts before you take it. The hook is way higher percentage than playing for say someone to have QJ doubleton of hearts or anything like that.

Sorry, I failed to notice that taking the spade finesse early can't risk the contract because the defence won't have a setting trick. That is what comes of posting late in the evening after a bridge session.

[nullve]

 Stephen Tu, on 2021-July-07, 02:41, said:

Huh??? Unless you are talking about a spade opening lead from East from a player who can be counted on to never underlead K, I don't understand what you are talking about. Also the questioner I was answering specified spade not led at trick one.

I misread

 AL78, on 2021-July-06, 18:15, said:

do you take the spade finesse for a 13th trick if a spade wasn't led at trick one?

as

 AL78, on 2021-July-06, 18:15, said:

do you take the spade finesse for a 13th trick if a spade was led at trick one?

[Winstonm]

What’s the question?

[LBengtsson]

if you have an ace and a king opposite any normal 2♣ (opposed to distributional) opener you should always think in the slam zone except if partner rebids 2nt or you find bad fit. partner to open 2♣ should guarantee minimum of 8.5 tricks in hand alone, and you with a ace and a king have 1.5. if you don not have 12 tricks, then you will have 11 and at worst 10 so you can make small enquiry above 3nt and still land in a makeable contract

[jillybean]

Our auction was 2C:2D 3NT:6NT.

My father sitting South opened 3nt and is still grumbling that my mother passed. 2♦:2♥ 3NT would have shown this hand for them.
Obviously I don't know what others did but I may ask the North's who played it how they got there.

[fromageGB]

 Cyberyeti, on 2021-July-07, 02:38, said:

I can see a lot of club players looking at their 7 count and knowing partner has 24-25 or worse 23-25 and leaving it in 3N.

Does anyone play an opening method that has S rebidding 3NT on a count with a maximum 25? Seems strange to me. Minimum 25 !

[Cyberyeti]

 fromageGB, on 2021-July-11, 07:31, said:

Does anyone play an opening method that has S rebidding 3NT on a count with a maximum 25? Seems strange to me. Minimum 25 !

No but some people play 2N 20-22, 2♣/2N as 23-25 so then a club N signs off in 3N, otherwise 2N 20-21, 2♣/2N 22-23 something else (2♦/2N or Kokish 2N or 2♣/3N) as 24-25