[Cyberyeti]

I play precision pretty rarely and we play a slight modification of old style Reese precision with alpha-beta-gamma

How should the following be bid ?

---

We had a bidding misunderstanding over whether 2N still got beta responses (I don't know what is normal here), but the hand seems problematic for the system anyway.

[LBengtsson]

2nt is beta. 2nt is beta over any positive response by responder as I know. if using simple steps 3♣ would show <2 controls, 3♦ 3 controls, 3♥ 4 controls...

agree it is difficult when responder gives a positive bid in a minor suit and you have good support, as you wish to use gamma to find out about trump suit here also but 3nt may be best contract played by you if p is very minimum.

[Cyberyeti]

LBengtsson, on 2021-April-16, 05:43, said:

2nt is beta. 2nt is beta over any positive response by responder as I know. if using simple steps 3♣ would show <2 controls, 3♦ 3 controls, 3♥ 4 controls...

agree it is difficult when responder gives a positive bid in a minor suit and you have good support, as you wish to use gamma to find out about trump suit here also but 3nt may be best contract played by you if p is very minimum.

Partner shows 4 controls, now what ?

[yunling]

You are losing too much space via 2N. A common gadget is to play cheapest step as asking and swap it with 2NT (so 2NT shows hearts here).
But traditional precision 2D response is way too high anyway.

[mycroft]

Heh, I was trying to figure out why I can't just agree diamonds and get alpha answers - and then I realized that I haven't played Precision with natural responses for over a decade. Our bids go 1♣-2♣; 2♦ and I get what I want to know. 3♦ to get that - might be okay?

There are arguments to be made that you shouldn't play NT by opener as an asking bid, because "limited balanced hand" is so important to say (if you could bid 2NT natural as good 16-19 BAL, you'd do so, because partner can make all the decisions now!)

Having said that, if it is beta, and I get 4, well, I'm off the minor kings or an ace. If it's the ♥A, I have 10 tricks I can see; if it's the ♦A, we can hope for 11, with all suits double-stopped; if it's the Kings, I don't like my chances anywhere. All signs point to partner (who can see the minor honours) having to make the decision. 4NT is quantitative, yes? (and I still haven't shown my partner diamond support. Okay, is 4♦ going to tell her anything?)

[Cyberyeti]

mycroft, on 2021-April-16, 09:36, said:

Heh, I was trying to figure out why I can't just agree diamonds and get alpha answers - and then I realized that I haven't played Precision with natural responses for over a decade. Our bids go 1♣-2♣; 2♦ and I get what I want to know. 3♦ to get that - might be okay?

There are arguments to be made that you shouldn't play NT by opener as an asking bid, because "limited balanced hand" is so important to say (if you could bid 2NT natural as good 16-19 BAL, you'd do so, because partner can make all the decisions now!)

Having said that, if it is beta, and I get 4, well, I'm off the minor kings or an ace. If it's the ♥A, I have 10 tricks I can see; if it's the ♦A, we can hope for 11, with all suits double-stopped; if it's the Kings, I don't like my chances anywhere. All signs point to partner (who can see the minor honours) having to make the decision. 4NT is quantitative, yes? (and I still haven't shown my partner diamond support. Okay, is 4♦ going to tell her anything?)

I presume you mean gamma answers in the first bit, alpha is a suit of your own.

The problem is that partner's hand is J98, x, AKxxx, KJ10x (actually I think I may have the club suits transposed from the actual layout) and 6♣ is a lot better than 6♦/6N, it's a lot easier if 2N is not beta. We had an awkward auction where it went (F2F alerting rules) 1♣*-2♦-2N-3♣*-3N and I'm in an awkward place because I know partner's interpreted my natural 3♣ as 0-2 controls, I felt I owed partner a try over 3N (I actually have the club suits the wrong way round, I had a 14 count) so bid 4N which he passed. They led a heart away from the ace so he made 12 for not a bad score. 6♣ is cold, 6♦/N require you to guess whether the defender behind the ♠AK has 10x or Qx.

[mycroft]

years since I knew the names. You're right.

But again, this looks very much like "partner of the limited, balanced hand should be captain", which I think is why the "1NT is asking" bid went away.

[etha]

2NT is never beta.