[pljr]

As an Acol player I do not understand this frequently seen SAYC sequence by the oppos:

1C - 1NT

2S - 2NT

3NT

What does the 2S indicate? Surely the 1NT bidder has denied a 4 card major?

How does the 1NT bidder grow his 6 point minimum into 11 hcp for his 2NT bid?

How does the 3NT bidder raise the 6 point holder up to the desired 25 total?


Thanks to all who can solve this for me!

[pljr]

As an Acol player I do not understand this frequently seen SAYC sequence by the oppos:

1C - 1NT

2S - 2NT

3NT

What does the 2S indicate? Surely the 1NT bidder has denied a 4 card major?

How does the 1NT bidder grow his 6 point minimum into 11 hcp for his 2NT bid?

How does the 3NT bidder raise the 6 point holder up to the desired 25 total?


Thanks to all who can solve this for me!

[P_Marlowe]

pljr, on 2021-December-22, 04:46, said:

As an Acol player I do not understand this frequently seen SAYC sequence by the oppos:

1C - 1NT

2S - 2NT

3NT

What does the 2S indicate? Surely the 1NT bidder has denied a 4 card major?

How does the 1NT bidder grow his 6 point minimum into 11 hcp for his 2NT bid?

How does the 3NT bidder raise the 6 point holder up to the desired 25 total?


Thanks to all who can solve this for me!

#1 Opener is showing a 54 hand with at least reverse strength
#2 2NT does not promise add. values, given that 2S is forcing
it could be artificial, ..., it should deny max. values and club support

[mw64ahw]

My interpretation would be that 2♠ is a reverse showing an unbalanced hand (likely 4315 ish) w. ~17+hcp so responder bids 2NT with sub ~8hcp. 3NT says I have enough opposite your minimum and likely ♦s.

[pljr]

I,m intrigued to read that the opener has 5 clubs promised by this sequence.

This could help us with our opening leads.

Does the sequence starting with 1D promise 5 diams in the same way please?

[Cyberyeti]

pljr, on 2021-December-22, 05:18, said:

I,m intrigued to read that the opener has 5 clubs promised by this sequence.

This could help us with our opening leads.

Does the sequence starting with 1D promise 5 diams in the same way please?

Think about it this way, what hand could they conceivably not have 5 clubs and want to rebid spades ? Firstly they won't have a balanced hand they either opened 1N, passed partner's 1N or raised it depending on range.

There are two hand types - 4144/4414. Now they might open diamonds on the first but would certainly rebid them if strong enough and would rebid hearts on the second.

Ergo they have 5+ clubs. Either they have a strong 5+/4 or they have a decent 6+♣/5♠ (some open 1♠ but many don't)

How would you bid AKxx, A, Kxx, AJ10xx ? if not through this sequence ? (partner has say xxx, QJx, Axxx, 9xx, not sure if SAYC responds 1♦ or 1N)

[DavidKok]

Just move a small diamond to clubs in responder's hand for the example Cyberyeti

[P_Marlowe]

pljr, on 2021-December-22, 05:18, said:

I,m intrigued to read that the opener has 5 clubs promised by this sequence.

This could help us with our opening leads.

Does the sequence starting with 1D promise 5 diams in the same way please?

Yes.
A reverse shoes add. length in the first bid suit.
I wrote opener is showing 4+ spades, this is true, but he may also bid it with only a strong
3 carder, if he cant think of a better forcing bid.
If you end up in NT, responder should make sure, he has both other suits covered.
You could argue, that spade tells them about the weakness, but in the given seq. a major suit
will be lead, and chances are high, that they lead their suit.

Finnally, this is not a specific SAYC seq., it is a seq. that common to most bidding systems.
See als
https://www.bridgeba...everse-bidding/

[helene_t]

The auction would mean the same in Acol (or most other natural bidding systems, for that matter).

The 1NT bid has a slightly higher upper range in a strong-nt system since it means "I want to play 1NT if you have a balanced 12-14". In a weak-nt system, it would mean "I want to play 1NT if you have a balanced 15-16".

2♠ is a normal reverse, i.e. 16+ points and an unbalanced hand (you might need 17+ in a weak-nt system, though, as responder has already denied game interest opposite 16 points).

2NT is a curious bid since we would normally have a club fit here, but some like to make the 1NT response with a 3352, i.e. a doubleton clubs. Alternatively, it just shows red suit stoppers. In any case, the normal meaning of 2NT is that it is nonforcing, so it must be max 7(8) since opener has reversed. You could agree that it is forcing since we have a club fit so 2NT can't be the right contract, but that is not mentioned in the SAYC booklet.

Opener accepts the invite so he must have some 18+ points.

[Cyberyeti]

DavidKok, on 2021-December-22, 06:27, said:

Just move a small diamond to clubs in responder's hand for the example Cyberyeti

Then 5♣ is more likely to make

[steve2005]

2♠ is a reverse showing extra strength.
How much depends on partnership agreement, but 18+ would not be uncommon.
2♠ is also forcing 1 round, so 2NT doesn't much extra. In fact with 9 or 10 would likely have bid 3NT.
With an absolute minimum and 3 clubs they would bid 3C

[HardVector]

I actually had this auction yesterday, with hearts instead of spades. It confused my partner as well. 3n was a fine contract, but was not ideal. I had a 4-4-0-5 hand and 6 clubs was cold with 7 on a finesse. That is the reason for the 2M bid, to say you have a big hand and that you would like to explore the right place to play it.

[apollo1201]

Yes, 2S is forcing (almost GF) showing extras and presumably a hand not ideally suitable for NT. Probably with a red* singleton. The idea is not to look for the S fit but describe where the values lay to find the best partial or game.

With a dead minimum, responder is expected to go back to 3C with a fit or some tolerance for the suit, unless they can handle NTs with maybe 6-8 and all points in the reds.

With a more going fwd hand, responder should find some more constructive bid (3NT, 3 red if only one red suit is problematic).

* or specifically a H sg, the D sg being shown with a « natural » 2NT