[hrothgar]

So, I just saw a report on Bridge Winners that BBO's management has sent out a Cease and Desist order to a BBO member who was streaming his bridge games on TWITCH

I'm be interested in understanding if this was true and, if so, why it was done.

[Zelandakh]

hrothgar, on 2020-December-28, 20:12, said:

So, I just saw a report on Bridge Winners that BBO's management has sent out a Cease and Desist order to a BBO member who was streaming his bridge games on TWITCH

I'm be interested in understanding if this was true and, if so, why it was done.

In my view, you should get the explicit permission of all players at the table before streaming. I for one have objected to a streamer in an online multiplayer game before now and sent takedown requests to Twitch for the resulting videos.

[pilowsky]

hrothgar, on 2020-December-28, 20:12, said:

So, I just saw a report on Bridge Winners that BBO's management has sent out a Cease and Desist order to a BBO member who was streaming his bridge games on TWITCH

I'm be interested in understanding if this was true and, if so, why it was done.

Really? well, provide a link then.

[hrothgar]

pilowsky, on 2020-December-29, 02:16, said:

Really? well, provide a link then.

https://bridgewinner...059481#c1059481

[pilowsky]

hrothgar, on 2020-December-29, 06:06, said:

https://bridgewinner...059481#c1059481

Right so just adding 1 and 1 and getting 4 again. Most people like to have all the facts before grabbing a lightsabre and swinging into action. Well, consistency is some sort of virtue I suppose.

[Cyberyeti]

Zelandakh, on 2020-December-28, 20:59, said:

In my view, you should get the explicit permission of all players at the table before streaming. I for one have objected to a streamer in an online multiplayer game before now and sent takedown requests to Twitch for the resulting videos.

Most streamers online make sure you know you're being streamed and if you object don't team with you. I'm involved with a different situation, where a game is being run on what are essentially pirate servers, but with the understanding from the IP rights holder who shut down the official servers that as long as nobody makes any money off it, they won't get heavy about it. Because of the possibility of making money off Twitch they will ban anybody who streams from their servers.

[thepossum]

From what I have seen on Twitch recently you would also have to warn all the Kibitizers before they come to a table

Everyone has the right not to be videoed without permission in any context. And no I don't think any legal small print gets around that right

If it isnt bad enough thinking about constant surveillance everywhere we go we have to worry about what we think is something restricted to a small chat window for a short time being recorded in perpetuity

Is there an invisible mode I can use when kibitizing

I have to admit though I was sorely torn between watching a squad of crack troops defending an oil rig from attack (appologies in advance for misrepresenting someone's game) and checking out someone's bridge match

Just checking, if you put your Bridge match up on Twitch is it mandatory to have a small video frame of yourself in whatever you are wearing in your bedroom

[pilowsky]

"I read about something that someone else is saying on another forum" Is exactly where baseless conspiracy theories come from. Is Sydney Powell defending the person? Does Hugo Chavez own Twitch? Just asking.

[TylerE]

thepossum, on 2020-December-29, 17:30, said:

Everyone has the right not to be videoed without permission in any context.

In the US, at least, this is totally untrue. There is no right to privacy in public.

[thepossum]

TylerE, on 2020-December-29, 19:59, said:

In the US, at least, this is totally untrue. There is no right to privacy in public.

I'm expressing a personal point of view, and one I believe with a fair grounding in natural justice and law if anyone cared about those kinds of things anymore

But yes of course there are all kinds of legitimate videoing of people, purely (hopefully) for law enforcement and hopefully not abused

The problem is not so much that there is some kind of observation occasionally for legitimate reasons. After all we are publicly visible. That is obvious when we walk outside. The problem is there are those who do not have a privacy ethic over things they see

We enter an implied contract in certain circumstances (certainly not on a web site in our homes) where we publicly show ourselves to a certain extent. But seriously there are so many people (sadly) who have no cnception of how that contract and privacy are not mutually exclusive. And social media has made it worse

We allow ourselves to be seen, even looked at (in a none creepy way for a while), overheard, even listened to (in a non creepy way for a while), even talked about (hopefully in a non creepy way) etc. But unless we are public figures or have committed an offence people have to be careful what they do with that information

And even public figures of all kinds have a right to the same privacy when they go out publicly in their private lives IMO

EDIT Maybe I have an unusual view of what privacy and/or confidentialty mean. But in my personal world it should be possible to leave a highly sensitive/confidential even top level classified document out on a cafe table for hours and not have to worry. In fact I will go further. It should be possible for any random stranger to sit there and read it without causing you any concerns too

[Zelandakh]

Cyberyeti, on 2020-December-29, 15:22, said:

Most streamers online make sure you know you're being streamed and if you object don't team with you. I'm involved with a different situation, where a game is being run on what are essentially pirate servers, but with the understanding from the IP rights holder who shut down the official servers that as long as nobody makes any money off it, they won't get heavy about it. Because of the possibility of making money off Twitch they will ban anybody who streams from their servers.

My experience has been quite different from this and objections are simply ignored and the streamer just continues anyway. And that is just those streamers that actually announce themselves; several others just stream without saying anything. This is completely standard as far as I can see, at least on f2p games.

thepossum, on 2020-December-29, 17:30, said:

Everyone has the right not to be videoed without permission in any context. And no I don't think any legal small print gets around that right

Legally this is actually not the case. The rules for this sort of thing varies widely from region to region. Within America, you have an absolute right to film anyone from public land aside from a couple of very specific exceptions. There are even YouTube channels devoted specifically to this right being used to annoy various local US authorities. But online recording has slightly different rules that kick in at state level; and international rules are a complete minefield. So to make a case against someone you might need to know all of the registered HQ of the company running the game, the physical location of the game servers and the physical location of the streamer.

It gets quite messy so actually bringing a case would be beyond the average user and you are relying on good will from streaming host sites or from gaming companies. Given that streamers are typically both advertising and income for these companies, it would be unwise to rely on that good will supporting privacy over the medium term. So I would be inclined to support companies that take steps to support the privacy of their player base, not try to call them out for not supporting unsolicited streaming.

[Cyberyeti]

Zelandakh, on 2020-December-29, 21:09, said:

My experience has been quite different from this and objections are simply ignored and the streamer just continues anyway. And that is just those streamers that actually announce themselves; several others just stream without saying anything. This is completely standard as far as I can see, at least on f2p games.

I've had "I'm streaming this - if you don't like it don't play with me" type things. TBF all the multiplayer online stuff I've played and been recorded playing it's my avatar that's on screen not actually me.

[hrothgar]

Dedicated thread on BW has just kicked off

https://bridgewinner...idge-on-twitch/
Note that the initial letter that BBO sent out was making an IP claim.

[Zelandakh]

hrothgar, on 2020-December-30, 10:10, said:

Dedicate thread on BW has just kicked off

Who gives a sh!t about BW? If BBO make non-streaming part of the licensing to use their software, they have an absolute right to ban anyone who breaks those rules. In just the same way as a private club could ban recording and remove you if you did it regardless. A bunch of idiotic sheep on BW spouting the usual nonsense does not change that basic truth.

[hrothgar]

Zelandakh, on 2020-December-30, 10:49, said:

Who gives a sh!t about BW? If BBO make non-streaming part of the licensing to use their software, they have an absolute right to ban anyone who breaks those rules. In just the same way as a private club could ban recording and remove you if you did it regardless. A bunch of idiotic sheep on BW spouting the usual nonsense does not change that basic truth.

Who gives a ***** about whether or not BBO's new management is about to cover their interest payments

Not I...

[Zelandakh]

hrothgar, on 2020-December-30, 11:01, said:

Who gives a ***** about whether or not BBO's new management is about to cover their interest payments

Not I...

Well I care in as much as if they were to go under, we would no longer be able to use the free platform, which would be a shame. Not to mention the people losing their jobs. To be honest though, I am not too sure what the one has to do with the other. I doubt very much that the streamers are significantly hurting their bottom line.

[pescetom]

Zelandakh, on 2020-December-30, 11:26, said:

To be honest though, I am not too sure what the one has to do with the other. I doubt very much that the streamers are significantly hurting their bottom line.

Not that hard to figure out, I would have thought: the streamers are highlighting a crucial limitation of their service.

[pilowsky]

BBO is unlikely to have wasted precious time and resources and the certain outpouring of antagonism that resulted without a good reason.
It is not their responsibility to share their reasoning with us.
Who would wittingly incur the wrath of hrothgar with no good reason?

[TylerE]

pilowsky, on 2021-January-02, 14:34, said:

BBO is unlikely to have wasted precious time and resources and the certain outpouring of antagonism that resulted without a good reason.

Are we aware of the same BBO? The last decade of BBO is a string of bungled chances. If anyone else came along that was even half way competent they would eat BBO's lunch.