[sceptic]

after a 1 spade or 1 heart opening bid, I quite often get my self in trouble, using neg x, the reason seems to be, whilst 1,4,4,4 dist and 10 hcp is nice usually I end up with 1,3 major,4,5 or 2,3 major,4,4 and 10hcp

should I pass with only 3 of the major and wait to see what develops rather than x at every opportunity I get, the problem I get on occasions is playing in a 3/3major fit which goes down and then my p dissappearing

[luke warm]

ok,your partner opens 1s your rho bids 2c and you're 2344 with 10 hcp... the negative double should darn near guarantee 4 cards in the other major, imo... in this sequence it doesn't *have* to also show diamonds (tho usually will), but it should definitely show 4+ hearts...

only exception as far as i know is the game forcing neg x, playing nfb

[Fluffy]

My negative doubles treat all the unbid suits equally, but this is not standard probably.

[inquiry]

This might help

1) if the negative double occurs at the one level, it DENIES a higher four card major.... thus, 1C-(1H)-DBL denies four spades, so shows diamonds and club support

2) If your partner opens a minor, and they overcall a 1S, double 100% promises 4+ hearts.

3) If there are two unbid majors, double promises support for at least one, and if only one, then you have support for partners minor (1D-(2c)-DBL)

if you are 2344 with two in their suit and three in the only other major, with 10 points, try this... RAISE YOUR PARTNER... (a funny concept often called support with support to help you remember it).

Ben

[ArcLight]

Ben, is this right?

> 1) if the negative double occurs at the one level, it DENIES a higher four card major.... thus, 1C-(1H)-DBL denies four spades, so shows diamonds and club support

I could be wrong, but I thought with 5 ♠ you would respond 1♠, and with 4♠ you would make the Negative Double. I could be wrong, but I think this is what Marty Bergen wrote in his Negative Doubles book. (I'll check tonitght)

[PMetsch]

sceptic, on Jun 7 2005, 05:25 AM, said:

after a 1 spade .... 2,3 major,4,4 and 10hcp

should I pass with only 3 of the major

If you can not bid 2NT, because you have no stopper in their suit, then you can either raise partner with a doubleton or bid a negative double. But if partner bids 2♥, you should give preference to 2♠. You bid exactly the same as in an uncontested situation, say: 1♠ - 1NT; 2♥ - 2♠.

[inquiry]

ArcLight, on Jun 7 2005, 09:31 AM, said:

Ben, is this right?

> 1) if the negative double occurs at the one level, it DENIES a higher four card major.... thus, 1C-(1H)-DBL denies four spades, so shows diamonds and club support

I could be wrong, but I thought with 5 ♠ you would respond 1♠, and with 4♠ you would make the Negative Double. I could be wrong, but I think this is what Marty Bergen wrote in his Negative Doubles book. (I'll check tonitght)

Well this an area of disagreement between authorities. Some recommend just as I have written (Robson/Segal for instance), some recommend that 1♠ on this auction promises five spades. I am not the least bit afraid of playing in a moysein fit, so I have no problem bidding four card majors and raising with three cards. So I follow the "teachings" of R/S. It also simplifies the competitive auction... now, I can show diamonds and club support (or just diamonds but weak) with a double of 1♥, or I can show spades by bidding them. There is no really ackward hand... for instance,

1C-(1H)-DBL-(PASS)
2C-(P)-2D <<<----- just diamonds and not strong enough for immediate 2D

I suggest this method to anyone who will listen, and certainly to people who have been doubling without four card spade suit (as suggested in the orginal post in this thread).

Ben

[PriorKnowledge]

The problem does not add up. With 2344 and 10HCP, after 1S 2C, you have 4clubs. You can choose to punish them with a penalty pass or bid 2N a little lite.

Maybe you are thinking of a more difficult situation:
1C 1S with 2353 hand and 10hcp. If your 5-card diam suit is too weak for a NFB (or not playing that). You are kind of stuck.

Most experts say to hold your nose and dbl on the principle that the one short in opps suit has to take action.

I saw an expert panel once (including 2 world champs) that responded to this particular question. The problem was even worse. It was 1C 2S and responder had 9 with 2362 distribution. The panel was almost unanimous about the Neg dbl (and value of NFB that solves some of the situations).

[Al_U_Card]

Why try for the best possible bid when you can always get the best bid possible? This only depends on your partnership agreement and not bidding the same values twice. A good pard will protect when required and also expect that you may be under pressure for your action and act accordingly. Bridge bidding is such a beautiful language when we don't type it on the keyboard with a sledgehammer!

[Double !]

Curious about how many ascribe to the principle that the negX'er should have at least tolerance for opener's suit (e.g.: dbltn if P opens 1M) or extra values for safety?