[miamijd]

MinorKid, on 2020-August-02, 17:24, said:

---

---

---

If you don't play exclusion, you need to. Learn it and add it to your arsenal. Provided you play exclusion, I don't see a huge problem here.

The auction here ought to be simple enough. Even if you play Soloway Jump Shifts, this hand isn't really suitable. SJS ought to be based on (A) a very strong balanced hand; (B) a very strong hand with a suit that (i) will play for one loser opposite a void AND (ii) will play for no losers if partner has the A, K, or Q; or © a very strong hand with a good suit AND very good support for your partner's suit.

You have none of these. Your suit is such that if partner has a void, you can't be sure of just one loser. Worse, there is no way be sure how many losers you have in trump, because you can't ask for the Jack. A suit like AKxxxxx is much better. Now you can ask for the Queen and know exactly how many losers you have. And of course, your support for partner's suit is not nearly good enough for a SJS hand of type ©.

So you bid 1H. If partner responds 2D, you can either (A) launch exclusion with 5C (same as before) or (B) bid 2S (partner won't raise; he doesn't have four) and then over partner's D, H, or NT rebid, launch exclusion (5C will be exclusion with D as trump over a D or NT rebid, and exclusion with H as trump over a 3H rebid).

If partner responds 3D, showing six and quite a good hand, you give up on hearts, launch into exclusion (5C), find out that partner has AKd, and go to 7D. Of course, if partner has the Ac and can count 13 tricks, he can correct to 7NT. For example:

KQx void AKxxxxx Axx

In order to use exclusion, you must have the Qd (or else four of them), the As, and a source of tricks in H. So that's 3S, 7D, and 1C for 11 - surely you must have at least AKh.

Cheers,
Mike

Cheers,
Mike

[MinorKid]

We had some bidding practices. Firstly we discard 8 clubs ramdomly from the deck, then we suffle all remaining High cards (As, Ks, Qs, Js)and took ten of them discarding the rest, next we deal up all remaining cards from the deck up to 13-13. Here is what we got, a confusing auction but generally laugh to gut out at the end.

---

[Cyberyeti]

We bid:

1♦-1♥
2♦-4♣(optional voidwood)
4♦(I don't have an opening bid if you're void in clubs)-4♥(I don't care, still voidwood)
5♣(2 without)-7♦ (you can't have enough other things to make other grands as good given the 4♦ bid)

Alternative auction:
1♦-1♥
2♦-2♥(art inv+)
3♦(minimum, no side suit, not 3♥)-5♣(voidwood)
5♠(2 without)-7♦(you can't have enough other things to make other grands as good given the 3♦ bid)

Playing something more traditional without voidwood, I think you have to bid 4♣ splinter over 2♦, and I think it will continue 4♣-4♦-4♥-5♦-6♣ and now given that partner is still interested in the knowledge that I don't have an ace or king outside the trump suit, the trump AK has to be enough. There is the inference that he could have GSFd so the knowledge that I have 2 is not enough, it has to be AK so Jxxx is a very likely holding.

[bluenikki]

"So you bid 1H. If partner responds 2D, you can either (A) launch exclusion with 5C (same as before) or (B) bid 2S (partner won't raise; he doesn't have four) and then over partner's D, H, or NT rebid, launch exclusion (5C will be exclusion with D as trump over a D or NT rebid, and exclusion with H as trump over a 3H rebid)."

So you bid 1♥. Partner, who does not know the deal is slam-zone, will not hesitate to rebid 1♠ with xxxx or to rebid 2♦ with 10xxxxx.

The reason for jumpshifts is to prevent bad suits from being bid.

[msjennifer]

Sir,This hand is not the best candidate for a 2♥ jump shift.. I shall respond a simple 1♥ and await further developments already illustrated by others.It is worthwhile to go slow when openers start with a 1♣ or 1♦the two bids which need be investigated at low levels.with this hand one need not be in a hurry to take control right away.That can always be done anytime later.

[MinorKid]

Cyberyeti, on 2020-August-04, 05:28, said:

We bid:

1♦-1♥
2♦-4♣(optional voidwood)
4♦(I don't have an opening bid if you're void in clubs)-4♥(I don't care, still voidwood)
5♣(2 without)-7♦ (you can't have enough other things to make other grands as good given the 4♦ bid)

Alternative auction:
1♦-1♥
2♦-2♥(art inv+)
3♦(minimum, no side suit, not 3♥)-5♣(voidwood)
5♠(2 without)-7♦(you can't have enough other things to make other grands as good given the 3♦ bid)

Playing something more traditional without voidwood, I think you have to bid 4♣ splinter over 2♦, and I think it will continue 4♣-4♦-4♥-5♦-6♣ and now given that partner is still interested in the knowledge that I don't have an ace or king outside the trump suit, the trump AK has to be enough. There is the inference that he could have GSFd so the knowledge that I have 2 is not enough, it has to be AK so Jxxx is a very likely holding.

I guess someone like Brian Senior prefer play 1♦-1♥
2♦-4♣ as mini-splinter with usually 4-card support. To show a void they splinter and c-bid that suit again(4♣ ?? 5♣) so that they can continue c-bids / sign-off. To ask for key card with the void they start with the higher bid (5♣). These are on the grounds that singleton appears more than a void.

[Cyberyeti]

MinorKid, on 2020-August-05, 04:28, said:

I guess someone like Brian Senior prefer play 1♦-1♥
2♦-4♣ as mini-splinter with usually 4-card support. To show a void they splinter and c-bid that suit again(4♣ ?? 5♣) so that they can continue c-bids / sign-off. To ask for key card with the void they start with the higher bid (5♣). These are on the grounds that singleton appears more than a void.

We play a bourke style relay, the hands that would splinter with a stiff club go through that, so 4♣ is categorically a void for us.

[MinorKid]

Anyone think inverted minor raise 1♦-2♦ have some credit?

[Cyberyeti]

MinorKid, on 2020-August-05, 07:51, said:

Anyone think inverted minor raise 1♦-2♦ have some credit?

If you have the system to deal with it maybe but particularly at matchpoints, you need to establish if partner has ♥xxx and this isn't the way to do that.

[MinorKid]

Cyberyeti, on 2020-August-05, 05:50, said:

We play a bourke style relay, the hands that would splinter with a stiff club go through that, so 4♣ is categorically a void for us.

"on the new suit that would be forcing, so jump of that suit =splinter rule"
Bourke style relay said that, so does Brian Senior mini-sprinter.

[Cyberyeti]

MinorKid, on 2020-August-05, 08:06, said:

"on the new suit that would be forcing, so jump of that suit =splinter rule"
Bourke style relay said that, so does Brian Senior mini-sprinter.

Yes, but there are so few hands you want to do it on, you will usually want the additional information available from the relay at lower level, give me a hand you'd bid 1♥ then mini splinter.

[MinorKid]

Cyberyeti, on 2020-August-04, 05:28, said:

We bid:

1♦-1♥
2♦-4♣(optional voidwood)
4♦(I don't have an opening bid if you're void in clubs)-4♥(I don't care, still voidwood)
5♣(2 without)-7♦ (you can't have enough other things to make other grands as good given the 4♦ bid)

Putting in my shoe,
1♦ 1♥
2♦ 5♣
5♦ 5♥
6♣ 7♦

ok got it

Cyberyeti, on 2020-August-04, 05:28, said:

Alternative auction:
1♦-1♥
2♦-2♥(art inv+)
3♦(minimum, no side suit, not 3♥)-5♣(voidwood)
5♠(2 without)-7♦(you can't have enough other things to make other grands as good given the 3♦ bid)

Did you set the trumps on 2♥? Or it is merely showing stength? What if you want to play 2♥?

Cyberyeti, on 2020-August-04, 05:28, said:

Playing something more traditional without voidwood, I think you have to bid 4♣ splinter over 2♦, and I think it will continue 4♣-4♦-4♥-5♦-6♣ and now given that partner is still interested in the knowledge that I don't have an ace or king outside the trump suit, the trump AK has to be enough. There is the inference that he could have GSFd so the knowledge that I have 2 is not enough, it has to be AK so Jxxx is a very likely holding.

There goes:

---

It seem to me p asking me for second rd spade control. Maybe, maybe-not. That's interesting.

[Cyberyeti]

MinorKid, on 2020-August-05, 08:48, said:

Did you set the trumps on 2♥? Or it is merely showing stength? What if you want to play 2♥?

We give up on playing 2♥, the 2♥ bid is simply an artificial "tell me more" bid.

Quote

There goes:

---

It seem to me p asking me for second rd spade control. Maybe, maybe-not. That's interesting.

If I was after a second round spade control I'd bid 5♥ and partner would bid 5♠ if he had one.

[bluenikki]

msjennifer, on 2020-August-04, 13:19, said:

Sir,This hand is not the best candidate for a 2♥ jump shift.. I shall respond a simple 1♥ and await further developments already illustrated by others.It is worthwhile to go slow when openers start with a 1♣ or 1♦the two bids which need be investigated at low levels.with this hand one need not be in a hurry to take control right away.That can always be done anytime later.

But, as in my preceding post, partner's rebid will focus on finding a reasonable partscore strain. You wish he would know to suppress a bad suit. You will not get useful information.

[Cyberyeti]

bluenikki, on 2020-August-05, 09:36, said:

But, as in my preceding post, partner's rebid will focus on finding a reasonable partscore strain. You wish he would know to suppress a bad suit. You will not get useful information.

If partner has 10xxxxx 5♦ is a perfectly decent spot and you will play there if you voidwood.

[MinorKid]

Cyberyeti, on 2020-August-05, 08:34, said:

Yes, but there are so few hands you want to do it on, you will usually want the additional information available from the relay at lower level, give me a hand you'd bid 1♥ then mini splinter.

A typical 4-4-4-1

[Cyberyeti]

MinorKid, on 2020-August-06, 04:33, said:

A typical 4-4-4-1

Responds 2♦ for us

[MinorKid]

Cyberyeti, on 2020-August-06, 05:04, said:

Responds 2♦ for us

Wow. Do you mean respond 2♦ to 1♦
?

[Cyberyeti]

MinorKid, on 2020-August-14, 04:13, said:

Wow. Do you mean respond 2♦ to 1♦
?

Yes, one advantage of playing a 4 card diamond and a weak no trump is that 1♦-2♦ is 9+ with 5 or 10+ with 4 not denying 4M, this is much more awkward if the diamond might be 3 or you play a strong NT.