[MinorKid]

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[Cyberyeti]

How many cards minimum for the 1♦ ? for us is 4 in a weak NT context, so I would start with 2♥ showing at least 5 hearts to 2 or the top 3 and 4 diamonds to one of the top 3 or an old fashioned single suited rock crusher, values for game or better, I will probably follow up with voidwood (and yes 1♦-2♥-3♣-5♣ is clear cut voidwood for ♦ for us).

And yes I will go overboard opposite KQx, xx, 109xx, AKQJ

[shyams]

I play 2♥ over 1♦ as a weak jump. Consequently this early in the bidding I have no choice but to bid 1♥.

Perhaps the bidding "problem" would have been better structured either with the bidding having progressed a bit or by showing both hands upfront.

[pilowsky]

If you are playing in a best hand game with robots, then definitely 2♥: Soloway strong jump shift and go from there. Control bid to show void etc. Not much to go on. You have 18+ Does North really have 5♦?

[MinorKid]

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[Cyberyeti]

Btw 3♦ here will guarantee a minimum of 2 hearts for us over 1♦-2♥, if opener doesn't have them he bids 2N but this is non standard. I misread the diamonds, they don't meet our reqs for the jump shift.

1♦-1♥-2♦ I could use my relay to get more info, in our case 2♥, but will be other bids for other people, or I could simply bid 4♣ which is optional voidwood for us, 4♦ in reply to this says "I no longer have an opening bid in the light of your club void" otherwise he gives keycard responses.

[lamford]

shyams, on 2020-August-02, 04:22, said:

I play 2♥ over 1♦ as a weak jump. Consequently this early in the bidding I have no choice but to bid 1♥.

Perhaps the bidding "problem" would have been better structured either with the bidding having progressed a bit or by showing both hands upfront.

No, I prefer this way so we can plan the auction. I always prefer to go slowly and would bid 1H. Partner will probably rebid 2C, but he might bid 1NT or 1S which will suit us nicely. We will now game force with 2D, 2C or 2S and then rebid hearts and should be well placed.

[MinorKid]

Spoiler

If you launch RKCB or Exclusion KCB he gives you reply of 2 without the queen

Spoiler

unless you have prior shown 4-card diamond fit.

[MinorKid]

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[mikeh]

For me, 1H is clear, even if playing strong jump shifts. I really want to hear partner’s rebid.

Over 1S, which in my partnerships (and many, if not most, expert partnerships) promises shape, I have an easy 2C, which will give me a good idea of his shape.

Over 1N, I bid an artificial 2D, which will again allow time to learn if we belong in diamonds or hearts, and at what level.

For example, Kxx Jx QJxxx AQx is 4H but Kxx xx AKxxx Axx is 6D at imps and 6H at mps.

Over 2C, I bid 2S to establish a game force, with similar choices to be made later.

Over 2D, I use exclusion keycard, and bid small or grand in diamonds, depending on the response (one should play 0314 responses, in exclusion, and I can pass a disappointing 5D).

Over 2H, I bid 2S and hope to hear a couple of diamond cuebids in due course. Interestingly, a heart raise is probably the most discouraging call he can make, in terms of slam, since it becomes very difficult to get back to diamonds, and also to find out how good/long his diamonds are. Opposite xx Jxxx AKQxx Qx I want to play 7D, not 7H.

My main dislike of strong jumps is that they consume bidding space, and this hand cries out to maximize bidding space because our diamonds, almost surely the suit for grand, is so weak.

[Cyberyeti]

MinorKid, on 2020-August-02, 17:02, said:

Spoiler

If you launch RKCB or Exclusion KCB he gives you reply of 2 without the queen

Spoiler

unless you have prior shown 4-card diamond fit.

Spoiler

If this is exclusion, this is fine, partner is known to hold AKxxxx as 1♦-1♥-2♦ guarantees 6.

So it goes 5♣-5♠ and the way we play we bid 5N which says "tell me more" and partner would bid 6♣ with the ace so you could bid 7N if partner had showed some measure of heart support earlier.

As it is you just bid 7♦ I suspect.

[heart76]

MinorKid, on 2020-August-02, 07:31, said:

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Well, assuming a natural approach with no fancy agreements, for me it would be:
1st case: 2♠, absolute GF, partner to show 3 cards in ♥ if they have them
2nd case: if we have Exclusion (aka Voidwood), then 5♣, otherwise 3♠.

[FelicityR]

mikeh, on 2020-August-02, 22:58, said:

My main dislike of strong jumps is that they consume bidding space, and this hand cries out to maximize bidding space because our diamonds, almost surely the suit for grand, is so weak.

Totally agree. There are so many other game forcing auctions available to good partnerships here. I, too, believe in the principle of slow, methodical bidding in these situations. The problem with using a jump force here, in my humble opinion, is that partner will never exactly know whether you want to be in ♦s or ♥s, or dependent on the scoring, no-trumps at MPs.

With a slow approach both hands can be described in better detail.

[mikeh]

Cyberyeti, on 2020-August-03, 02:01, said:

Spoiler

If this is exclusion, this is fine, partner is known to hold AKxxxx as 1♦-1♥-2♦ guarantees 6.

So it goes 5♣-5♠ and the way we play we bid 5N which says "tell me more" and partner would bid 6♣ with the ace so you could bid 7N if partner had showed some measure of heart support earlier.

As it is you just bid 7♦ I suspect.

Depends on the scoring.however, at imps I’d never bid 7N. If partner showed a modicum of heart support, such that I could count on him for at least two, there is too much risk of a bad heart break. I’m not risking 7N down 1 or 2 rather than playing 7D, where I can ruff a heart.

Indeed, unless playing the last day of the Blue Ribbon Pairs or a similar very tough event, I’d settle for 7D at mps. Any making grand is likely to score well over 50% while any minus is going to be close to a zero. There is a saying in golf: on a shot to the green, aim for the centre and putt to the corners. Aiming for a tough pin placement risks a miss leaving one with a challenging next shot.

I’d also risk 7N, if I know partner has at least 2 hearts (and the club ace) in a strong board a match event: although I confess that, having used exclusion, I’m not at all convinced that I’d ever get there

[nige1]

Minorfkid. Hand rotated
++++++++++++++++++++
My guess. Settle for 7♦ although 7♥ or 7N might also work.

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[bluenikki]

lamford, on 2020-August-02, 13:28, said:

No, I prefer this way so we can plan the auction. I always prefer to go slowly and would bid 1H. Partner will probably rebid 2C, but he might bid 1NT or 1S which will suit us nicely. We will now game force with 2D, 2C or 2S and then rebid hearts and should be well placed.

In your plan, if the first chance you have to rebid hearts is 4 ....

[Cyberyeti]

mikeh, on 2020-August-03, 05:46, said:

Depends on the scoring.however, at imps I’d never bid 7N. If partner showed a modicum of heart support, such that I could count on him for at least two, there is too much risk of a bad heart break. I’m not risking 7N down 1 or 2 rather than playing 7D, where I can ruff a heart.

Indeed, unless playing the last day of the Blue Ribbon Pairs or a similar very tough event, I’d settle for 7D at mps. Any making grand is likely to score well over 50% while any minus is going to be close to a zero. There is a saying in golf: on a shot to the green, aim for the centre and putt to the corners. Aiming for a tough pin placement risks a miss leaving one with a challenging next shot.

I’d also risk 7N, if I know partner has at least 2 hearts (and the club ace) in a strong board a match event: although I confess that, having used exclusion, I’m not at all convinced that I’d ever get there

I agree with this although I suppose there's just about room for partner to hold Kx, xx, AKxxxx, Axx where you're on a 3-2 heart break or the spade finesse for 7N.

At IMPs I'd never consider 7N because it's well nigh impossible to have 13 tricks if the hearts run and the diamonds don't. I suppose he could have ♣A10x and the hand in front of the diamonds could have ♣KQJ and 3 diamonds, but it's hardly likely.

[Huibertus]

What I can picture is 7♦, 7♥. In order to get there, of prevent getting there, you need to GET information, so bid 1♥, dont SEND information by bidding 2♥ and remove the space to hear your partner out.

[MinorKid]

Huibertus, on 2020-August-03, 08:12, said:

What I can picture is 7♦, 7♥. In order to get there, of prevent getting there, you need to GET information, so bid 1♥, dont SEND information by bidding 2♥ and remove the space to hear your partner out.

At first i totally agree but the more i think about it tends to be less convincing for me. Frankly i think after 1♦ 1♥ 2♦ i need to find out the ♦A ♦K ♦Q (or tenth ♦) in north's hand. If i (south) have any one of those top honor i will be quite tempted to wind up with 1♦ 1♥ 2♦ 5NT (to get information). Surely sometimes it get overboard with two missing honors but imo it is unlikely as north skipped all to way to 2d.

After i picture this, back to the current problem. It is awkward. It is difficult for me to find out all three honors lacking a dedicated agreement of exclusion KCB or Josephine 5NT without getting overboard. I have seriously think of fancy low level bidding agreement after 1♦-2♦ / 1♦-2♦-??-4♦ adding element of gamma asking bids but we left no room to discuss that at that moment. Maybe i shall send info to my partner instead, in that case strong jump shift makes a better description of the hand.

Spoiler

West has the ♠K.
E-W has at least 10 card club fit, as indicated in the bidding.

[Cyberyeti]

MinorKid, on 2020-August-03, 09:40, said:

At first i totally agree but the more i think about it tends to be less convincing for me. Frankly i think after 1♦ 1♥ 2♦ i need to find out the ♦A ♦K ♦Q (or tenth ♦) in north's hand. If i (south) have any one of those top honor i will be quite tempted to wind up with 1♦ 1♥ 2♦ 5NT (to get information). Surely sometimes it get overboard with two missing honors but imo it is unlikely as north skipped all to way to 2d.

After i picture this, back to the current problem. It is awkward. It is difficult for me to find out all three honors lacking a dedicated agreement of exclusion KCB or Josephine 5NT without getting overboard. I have seriously think of fancy low level bidding agreement after 1♦-2♦ / 1♦-2♦-??-4♦ adding element of gamma asking bids but we left no room to discuss that at that moment. Maybe i shall send info to my partner instead, in that case strong jump shift makes a better description of the hand.

Spoiler

West has the ♠K.
E-W has at least 10 card club fit, as indicated in the bidding.

Tenth diamond is known, what shape do you rebid 2♦ over 1♥ with only 5 ? You don't have 4 spades or clubs and you didn't rebid (or open if playing weak) 1N. You would also have an option of bidding 2♥ if 53(32) if you didn't fancy 1N.

EW don't always have a 10 card club fit here, Kx, void, AKxxxxx, Jxxx is perfectly possible.

A lot of pairs play a bourke style relay over 1♦-1♥-2♦ although what the relay bid is varies. Once you detail the hand opposite I can show how we would bid it.