[pilowsky]

When I joined the Prime club I was told that:
We will improve the BBO Prime community and keep adding more awesome features to your subscription. Don't hesitate to let us know what else you would love to see on BBO in general, or in the BBO Prime community in particular.
Here are Some improvements that I would really like to see.
1. The ability to use deal sources other than "Random or Vugraph". I have worked out how to make all sorts of different hand types easily and import them into BBO for bidding practice.
If anyone is interested I can provide a presentation showing them how to do this. No specialist computer skills are needed.
Like most other Prime members I pay to use this area for practice, not to socialise. I would like to be able to import these prepared hands and practice with them since I have already paid for the Advanced robots, I do not want to go to a teaching table and rent robots there.
2. As mentioned in an earlier thread I really want to be able to toggle the option to play the hand when my partner is Declarer. But not always.

I can understand that in the first iteration of Prime it was different because most of the membership was not paying. This is not the case any more.
The free Prime tournament is nice but not as valuable to me as the 2 requests above.
Perhaps other Prime members could also make suggestions. Normally when I write to "support" I am told to post on the Forum. So, here it is.
Changes of this type would help me enormously. They should not be difficult to implement.

What do other Prime members think? I have set the poll

[diana_eva]

pilowsky, on 2020-July-11, 22:28, said:

...
1. The ability to use deal sources other than "Random or Vugraph". I have worked out how to make all sorts of different hand types easily and import them into BBO for bidding practice.
If anyone is interested I can provide a presentation showing them how to do this. No specialist computer skills are needed.
Like most other Prime members I pay to use this area for practice, not to socialise. I would like to be able to import these prepared hands and practice with them since I have already paid for the Advanced robots, I do not want to go to a teaching table and rent robots there.
...

You already can do this. When you start your table in the Prime bridge Club you can choose teaching or bidding in the scoring type. You have to define what type of table you need at the beginning, in the Start table menu, you cannot change table type after it has been created.

[pilowsky]

That's an extremely helpful suggestion diana_eva,
Here is the result. As you can see I was able to load up the deals that I had created. They all have a better than 44 fit in the majors and the bulk of the HCP with NS. Unfortunately, and this was something I was unaware of, (the old Dunning-Kruger problem), now I see all of the hands. With this hand, I managed through dint of tremendous effort to bid without peeking, and ended up as dummy! The North robot - a worthy partner did their best but still went -1. So, I would still like to be able to make myself Declarer if I want to. When I have a lesson, My teacher has to ask me how I would play the hand. Now I understand why! I can also see why he is able to make the hands visible to me. This is progress.
What is needed is a Learning table where the student controls everything as opposed to a Teaching table. This style of education is very pre-1960's. Your advice is an improvement, I guess I could log in under an alias and teach myself, but since many people already think I have a God complex, It would be better if improvements could be made along the lines I have suggested. Although I am not a very good Bridge player, I am an expert in the field of education.

[diana_eva]

You can switch yourself to the robot seat easily, although this is probably not what you mean with an option to let the human play the hand

Click the little hamburger zebra menu where the table options are. While at a practice table you can choose "Teaching options..." and choose whether to see all hands or not.

Un-check the options for host to see all hands.

This post has been edited by diana_eva: 2020-July-12, 03:59
Reason for edit: hamburger = zebra, as per Paul

[pilowsky]

That's much better. Once again my incompetence let me down. Now I don't see the other hands!

By the way, Can I suggest - as a teaching tip - that you don't call it a "hamburger". In most countries, hamburgers do not look like 3 white lines. In Germany, they will think that you are directing them to a coastal city. In the USA they call it a Sandwich. I only knew what you meant because I read a thread on the Forum where this strange nomenclature was used and then had to be explained. To me, it looks more like a Zebra crossing .


One useful thing though - for me anyway - when playing the hand AND seeing all the cards being played I was able to see some of my stupid card play mistakes made obvious, so that was great from a learning perspective.

[pilowsky]

Here's an unexpected benefit of the Prime Club!
The Claim button is Super friendly.

[diana_eva]

Yes in training mode you can claim at any point, since the table host controls everything. This is intentional.

[barmar]

pilowsky, on 2020-July-12, 03:55, said:

By the way, Can I suggest - as a teaching tip - that you don't call it a "hamburger".

Like it or not, that's what it's generally called throughout the industry. It even has a Wikipedia page.

https://en.wikipedia...amburger_button

The name arose because it looks like a Big Mac hamburger, which has 3 slices of bread.

[pilowsky]

barmar, on 2020-July-12, 12:56, said:

Like it or not, that's what it's generally called throughout the industry. It even has a Wikipedia page.

https://en.wikipedia...amburger_button

The name arose because it looks like a Big Mac hamburger, which has 3 slices of bread.

I don't like it. It is a metaphor that not everyone will understand. You need to study the concept of "the fully imagined audience" and read a bit less Wikipedia. Although you are an expert Bridge player I am an expert at education. Use of the term 'Hamburger' confuses people. I have seen 'hamburger' used before on these pages, and then I have seen several posts where it had to be explained. This is pointless. Just say "the 3 white lines". It's like alerting your bid. Don't say Jacoby 2NT, that's also in Wikipedia. Say what you mean. That's scorn. But it's also education - and I'm fully imagining my audience! You.

[pilowsky]

The undo option on the teaching table is broken. Can it be fixed? It only goes back one step. It is not possible to rewind and try out different lines of play in the same way that I can in other parts of BBO.

[Douglas43]

I liked the inclusion of the BeBridge magazine subscription

[EddyHaskel]

Zebraburger?

[SelfGovern]

pilowsky, on 2020-July-13, 00:13, said:

The undo option on the teaching table is broken. Can it be fixed? It only goes back one step. It is not possible to rewind and try out different lines of play in the same way that I can in other parts of BBO.

It would be nice if there were a "rewind" button to take you back to trick 1 as there is in the BridgeMaster hands.

[pilowsky]

That's a great idea! I've just been running through a bunch of hands. That would be very useful.

[cmsjw5]

"1. The ability to use deal sources other than "Random or Vugraph". I have worked out how to make all sorts of different hand types easily and import them into BBO for bidding practice. "

Importing pre-designed hands seems laborious. Have you tried using the Dealer program to generate them for you (See Deal Source> Advanced). You can achieve very precise control over the hands dealt, by pasting the conditions 'code' into the field provided. This example will generate weak NT openers:

/*
Generate hands for practicing bidding after 1NT

North hand. This is one NT according to Ron Klinger. 14 points plus 5 card suit = 15 points so not opened 1NT. Also allow weak 5 card majors in NT
South hand. This is an attempt to produce what RK terms a strong responding hand, i.e 8 points and 6 card suit, or 9 points with a 5-card suit, or 10 points upwards
*/

north_ok1 = shape(north, any 4333 + any 4432 + any 5332) and hcp (north)>11 and hcp(north)< 14
north_ok2 = shape(north, any 4333 + any 4432) and hcp(north) == 14
south_ok1 = hcp(south)>=10
south_ok2 = hcp(south)==8 and shape(south, any 6xxx)
south_ok3 = hcp(south)==9 and shape(south, any 5xxx)
condition (north_ok1 or north_ok2) and (south_ok1 or south_ok2 or south_ok3)


The instructions for writing your own code are also there. It looks complicated, but you can achieve a lot with fairly simple instructions.

[pilowsky]

It would be laborious except that there is a free programme on the web that does it all for you. They even save the deals for a year. This excellent site is called playbridge. It is much better than the method that you describe.
The reason is that with your method knowledge of coding is needed. With my method, none is required. There is no need to reinvent the wheel.

With this site you can download the .LIN files, .PBN files, and much more.

Using playbridge, I was instantly able to generate and play hands of many types. This took me a few hours to learn, after being unable to work out how to do it using the method you describe.
By the way, I have over 40 years of experience writing code. This means that the instructions for writing the code are poorly described.
You can find my explanation of how to use this site, set up a teaching table and how to use the Prime area for practice on my Forum home page. But here is a link. Feedback appreciated.

I don't get paid by BBO or anyone else, but I do promote Prime out of self-interest. If it gets better, I will get more value for the money that I spend on it. BBO will become a better site and I will have more fun.
GLP.

[pescetom]

I would have thought anyone with experience of writing code could get by with examples of script, like the one provided above. I have more problems figuring out how to run it (maybe because I am not Prime) than how to write it.

PlayBridge is a very useful site but I don't think you can compare its hand generator to script - it only allows very basic constraints and unless I miss something it would not even be able to replicate the simple example given above (1NT would have to include 5422 and there could not be three variants of the opposite hand).

[pilowsky]

pescetom, on 2020-July-19, 09:31, said:

I would have thought anyone with experience of writing code could get by with examples of script, like the one provided above. I have more problems figuring out how to run it (maybe because I am not Prime) than how to write it.

PlayBridge is a very useful site but I don't think you can compare its hand generator to script - it only allows very basic constraints and unless I miss something it would not even be able to replicate the simple example given above (1NT would have to include 5422 and there could not be three variants of the opposite hand).

I could not have put it better myself. BBO is providing a facility that is only useful to people with experience at writing code. I am suggesting something for people that do not have that experience. A lot of bridge players are not software engineers. Many people that drive cars are not mechanics.
I think that the vast majority of users would prefer playbridge to make hands. Both of the people that I have shown it to do. Both of them know there way around computers.
<br style="color: rgb(26, 95, 38); font-family: verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 12.8px;">qx|o1|md|3SQT986HAQJ3DQ5CA8,SJ5HT852DJ87CQ954,SA42HK7DK32CKT632|rh||ah|Board 1|sv|0|pg|| qx|o2|md|4ST82HA72D8752CT53,SAKJ74HKJ84DKJCJ2,SQ3H9653DAT3CAK64|rh||ah|Board 2|sv|n|pg|| qx|o3|md|1ST632H9DKT963CQ94,S8HQ763DAQ4CAKT62,SKQJ95HAKJ8DJ2C85|rh||ah|Board 3|sv|e|pg|| qx|o4|md|2SK8HK975DQ543C876,SJ54HA6DKT2CQJT93,SQT7HJ42DJ976C542|rh||ah|Board 4|sv|b|pg|| qx|o5|md|3SKQ964HJ753DK7CAK,S32HDAQT854C87632,SAJT7HAKT984D9C95|rh||ah|Board 5|sv|n|pg|| qx|o6|md|4SQT5HKQ9D8632C643,SAJ743HAJ86DK7CQT,SK96H752DAQT5CK97|rh||ah|Board 6|sv|e|pg|| qx|o7|md|1ST5HT432D762CJ753,SAJ62HK9DA984CQT9,SKQ983HAQJ5DJ3CK4|rh||ah|Board 7|sv|b|pg|| qx|o8|md|2S42HA543DQT82CT92,S763H96DA64CK8643,SAJ5HT82DK753CA75|rh||ah|Board 8|sv|0|pg|| qx|o9|md|3SKQJT5HQJ87DA5CQ7,SA8HAT932D87CJ984,S76HKDQJ932CAK532|rh||ah|Board 9|sv|e|pg|| qx|o10|md|4ST7HT8532DKT76C94,SAKJ53HKQ74DJ5CK6,S98642HJ9DQ984CAJ|rh||ah|Board 10|sv|b|pg|| qx|o11|md|1S5HAJT84DT742CT82,SKQ42H2DAKJ95CQ75,SJT976HKQ63DQ3CAK|rh||ah|Board 11|sv|0|pg|| qx|o12|md|2S75HJ4D87642CJT64,SHKT87532DAK9CA72,SAQJ982HDQT3C9853|rh||ah|Board 12|sv|n|pg|| qx|o13|md|3SQT432HKQJ7DA4CAT,SAJ5HA52DKQ5CJ653,SK98HT98643DJ83C4|rh||ah|Board 13|sv|b|pg|| qx|o14|md|4S43H32DQT7632CQJ6,SAT862HAJ98DK5CA2,SQ95HT754D8CKT974|rh||ah|Board 14|sv|0|pg|| qx|o15|md|1SJ874HQ742DT5CKJ5,S2HT5DKJ8764CT843,SKQ965HAJ93DAQC76|rh||ah|Board 15|sv|n|pg|| qx|o16|md|2SA73H8754DKJ632CK,S92HT62DQ9854C876,SQ65HA3DTCAJT9532|rh||ah|Board 16|sv|e|pg|| qx|o17|md|3SKQ763HKQ32DKQCJ7,ST54HJT97D974CA65,SAJ98H85DA52CK984|rh||ah|Board 17|sv|0|pg|| qx|o18|md|4SQ82HAJDQJT9832C2,SAKJ54HKQ92D65CQ5,S976HT7654DA74CJ4|rh||ah|Board 18|sv|n|pg|| qx|o19|md|1ST6H875DAKT532C42,SA93HJ93D76CT9765,SKQJ42HAK64DQJCJ3|rh||ah|Board 19|sv|e|pg|| qx|o20|md|2SA964HT8654DQ53CT,SK83HJ3DJT96CK532,S5HQ9DK872CAQ9864|rh||ah|Board 20|sv|b|pg|| qx|o21|md|3SAKQJ7HQJ82DK4CJ2,S83HAKT943DA985CA,S94H765D63CQT8653|rh||ah|Board 21|sv|n|pg|| qx|o22|md|4S953H9632DQ954CT3,SAKJ82HAJT8D76CA2,ST7HQ74DKT32CKQ64|rh||ah|Board 22|sv|e|pg|| qx|o23|md|1SKJHT82D8543CAKT5,SQ754HAQ7543D2C73,SA8632HKJ96DAQCJ4|rh||ah|Board 23|sv|b|pg|| qx|o24|md|2S75HQT8743DAQJC74,SQ94H65DK9832CT52,SJT3H9D654CAKJ983|rh||ah|Board 24|sv|0|pg||
Here are 24 boards South has 15-17HCP 5 in spades 4 in Hearts 2 and 2. everything else distributed randomly. Want a game? Took 5 seconds. LIN, PBN and hand records available. I can stipulate HCP and shape in North as well.

[Vampyr]

I like your option above “I would like to be able to be declarer at all times but not always”. Someone voted for it as well.

I have no interest at all in Prime, and when it becomes the obligatory for using BBO, which of course it will, I will be finding another site to play on.

[pilowsky]

Vampyr, on 2020-July-19, 22:48, said:

I like your option above "I would like to be able to be declarer at all times but not always". Someone voted for it as well.

I have no interest at all in Prime, and when it becomes the obligatory for using BBO, which of course it will, I will be finding another site to play on.

Thank you for that.
I very much doubt that Prime will ever become obligatory. To charge an entry fee would be like a Supermarket or a Casino charging people to walk in the door.
The idea is that you spend money once you enter.
Prime has some big advantages for people like me who are starting out and want to learn in peace.
In the Prime area, I can load up specific types of hands and drill them until I get them right - or at least think I do.
If I want to practice hands with a void in Diamonds and 17-19 HCP in South and 7-10 HCP in North - no problem. Hands with 4 card majors on each side can easily be set up. Partnership bidding and play is also easy to do.
For me, Prime is an excellent add-on.
Sure, the bidding style that the robots use is not to everyone's taste, but then, in the end, it's the same 52 cards.