[1parastoo]

Hi,
So my partner and I were in this situation where she's West and I'm East. W N E S
- p p 1C
1H 2C DBL p
2S p p p
I had AK10x,xx,J9xxxx,x. She had QJx,AK10xx,X,Kxxx.
We made 4.
I meant it for takeout.
Thanks,
Mark

[nullve]

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[pescetom]

I would call it a negative double, even if in an unusual situation and with rather feeble diamonds considering the zone.
Your partner understood perfectly it seems and 2♠ should make +1: well done.

[Stephen Tu]

It's called a "responsive double" in this position if meant for takeout. Whether you are able to double for takeout in this position is mainly a matter of partnership agreement; most good and modern players play this double as takeout for the unbid suits, but very old-fashioned or very newbie players might assume this double is penalties.

[pescetom]

 Stephen Tu, on 2020-May-27, 13:23, said:

It's called a "responsive double" in this position if meant for takeout. Whether you are able to double for takeout in this position is mainly a matter of partnership agreement; most good and modern players play this double as takeout for the unbid suits, but very old-fashioned or very newbie players might assume this double is penalties.

Not arguing, but just curious: my idea of "responsive double" includes the notion that I deny 4-cards in the only unbid major if there is one and I don't remember examples where the opponents bid and rebid a minor. In any case it is a rose, and definitely about the unbid suits and not penalties.

[Stephen Tu]

 pescetom, on 2020-May-27, 13:43, said:

Not arguing, but just curious: my idea of "responsive double" includes the notion that I deny 4-cards in the only unbid major if there is one and I don't remember examples where the opponents bid and rebid a minor. In any case it is a rose, and definitely about the unbid suits and not penalties.

In American English bridge terminology, "negative double" is reserved for doubles by responder to the opening bidder after an overcall. "Responsive double" is takeout doubles by advancer after a takeout double or overcall, followed by raise by RHO, the opening bidder's partner. open-overcall-dbl = neg. open-(dbl/overcall)-raise-dbl = responsive.

Denying 4 cds in an only unbid major tends to only apply on very specific auctions by partnership agreement, most common is 1h-x-2h-x, where the expectation is you bid 2S on 4. But other auctions, people tend to make different agreements; 1s-x-2s-x, dbl can be reasonably played as either denying hearts or guaranteeing hearts (with 2nt showing the different set of hands). And at higher levels, e.g. 1h-x-3h-x, a decent # of people don't deny spades with the double; after all if partner doesn't guarantee 4 cd spades it's dicier to declare 3/4 level contracts in a moysian when there are better fits available.

And certainly after an overcall, dbl would guarantee unbid suits, not deny them; it wouldn't make a lot of sense for double in the original bidder's situation to show just diamonds. Also after 1c-dbl-2c-dbl, this would typically show both majors and ask partner to pick one.

[AL78]

I would assume takeout. You have values, don't have immediate heart support, want to bid but don't have a suit to bid, and want partner to say something else about her hand. You shouldn't make 4♠, I don't think it makes if the defence lead a trump at every opportunity (and you have to lose the lead at least once to set up a big cross ruff. The only reasons the 21 count game on a Moysian fit has chances is that virtually all the HCPs are working, the ♣A is onside, the hearts are 3-3 and can be set up with one ruff, and you have all the spade honors between you, which prevents the defence overruffing when you start the crossruff.

[1parastoo]

 nullve, on 2020-May-27, 12:54, said:

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nullve,
Hi. How were you able to find this hand?
Thanks,
Mark

[1parastoo]

Hi,
Thanks everyone for your replies.
Mark