[paulg]

Not fashion guidance tips, but I've created a six-minute video explaining the new BBO architecture and its impact. If you've had problems finding friends over the last couple of days, or regularly play with friends at your own tables, watching it may improve your mental health.

https://youtu.be/qbmTcZZkkak

If you are using an iPad (or Android) and use the BBO app, please ensure that you have yesterday's updated app release installed.

[mycroft]

Thank you for doing this, and for everything else you've been doing since at least the world changed.

I am one of these people: https://twitter.com/...1697408/photo/1

But I know many if not most people are not, and so I appreciate what you do, even when "it's not for *me*".

[paulg]

If you are using a legacy client, like the original Windows client or Flash client, then you should be aware that you are responsible for causing additional confusion with the new architecture.

I suspect that you will believe that it is BBO's fault that they are not accommodating your preferences and maintaining an ancient piece of software or a insecure Flash client and that the later clients have lost important, almost vital, features. I may even agree, but I just ask that you be aware of the confusion you are now inducing.

A legacy client cannot access the new Casual platform and cannot see people who are on that platform. If you create a table in the Casual area, it is created on the main BBO platform and can only be seen there. If you do not appreciate this and tell people to go to the Casual platform, then they will not see you.

Similarly if you go to a club, like the Acol Club, and create a new table with a legacy client, it is created on the non-Casual platform. Thus there are now two Acol Clubs, one on the Casual platform and one on the main BBO platform. If you log in with a legacy client, you can only see the tables and friends on the main BBO platform. If you log in with the latest (v5,6) client, you will not see the tables of the Acol Club on the main platform but you will see friends who are playing there and you can join their table. However you cannot create your own table there. If you move to the Casual area with the v5.6 client, then you will see far more tables in play, the friends playing there, and you can create a table.

The same is true of the Main Bridge Club and Relaxed Bridge Clubs. And I suspect tables created by legacy clients remain where they were created, even if the original legacy creator departs. So we will see four v5.6 clients playing at a table that is not in the Casual area.

This is confusing of course.

BBO is working on providing greater integration, but if it was simple then they'd have done it immediately. So please be patient.

[Gpopmdb]

Paul: Thank you for your explanation. I tried to start a casual game today and was at my wit's end. The problem was as simple as making sure that all of my reserved seats were on the casual side which took one more click than we were used to. Thanks again.

[paulg]

Another facet of the split architecture that more experienced BBO users may not think of.

If you start a team match for friends, that you are not playing in, and then go and play at a Casual table, the match will no longer be able to speak to you and you will not get Call Director notifications.

[nor750ton]

paulg, on 2020-May-15, 07:50, said:

If you are using a legacy client, like the original Windows client or Flash client, then you should be aware that you are responsible for causing additional confusion with the new architecture.

I suspect that you will believe that it is BBO's fault that they are not accommodating your preferences and maintaining an ancient piece of software or a insecure Flash client and that the later clients have lost important, almost vital, features. I may even agree, but I just ask that you be aware of the confusion you are now inducing.

A legacy client cannot access the new Casual platform and cannot see people who are on that platform. If you create a table in the Casual area, it is created on the main BBO platform and can only be seen there. If you do not appreciate this and tell people to go to the Casual platform, then they will not see you.

Similarly if you go to a club, like the Acol Club, and create a new table with a legacy client, it is created on the non-Casual platform. Thus there are now two Acol Clubs, one on the Casual platform and one on the main BBO platform. If you log in with a legacy client, you can only see the tables and friends on the main BBO platform. If you log in with the latest (v5,6) client, you will not see the tables of the Acol Club on the main platform but you will see friends who are playing there and you can join their table. However you cannot create your own table there. If you move to the Casual area with the v5.6 client, then you will see far more tables in play, the friends playing there, and you can create a table.

The same is true of the Main Bridge Club and Relaxed Bridge Clubs. And I suspect tables created by legacy clients remain where they were created, even if the original legacy creator departs. So we will see four v5.6 clients playing at a table that is not in the Casual area.

This is confusing of course.

BBO is working on providing greater integration, but if it was simple then they'd have done it immediately. So please be patient.

This is an update on what you have posted

https://blog.bridgeb...-5-6-0-is-here/

[Georooney]

paulg, on 2020-May-15, 07:50, said:

If you are using a legacy client, like the original Windows client or Flash client, then you should be aware that you are responsible for causing additional confusion with the new architecture.

I suspect that you will believe that it is BBO's fault that they are not accommodating your preferences and maintaining an ancient piece of software or a insecure Flash client and that the later clients have lost important, almost vital, features. I may even agree, but I just ask that you be aware of the confusion you are now inducing.

A legacy client cannot access the new Casual platform and cannot see people who are on that platform. If you create a table in the Casual area, it is created on the main BBO platform and can only be seen there. If you do not appreciate this and tell people to go to the Casual platform, then they will not see you.

Ah, a glimmer of light appears! Legacy clients are in fact creating creating tables (main, relaxed) on the main platform, and not the casual platform? Is this right? (In other words, they have their own private little room?) Therefore the table becomes inaccessible to all who arrive after the table is in play? That certainly explains why I can see friends playing when I first log on, but can't get to their table.

But why does the programming not prevent legacy clients from creating a table on the wrong platform? For that matter, why does the program not reject legacy clients altogether, as the objective is clearly to move to the new program. Yes, it may be painful for some legacy clients. But like pulling a sliver, it's better to have a short jab of pain that a long drawn out one.

[paulg]

Georooney, on 2020-June-02, 01:24, said:

Ah, a glimmer of light appears! Legacy clients are in fact creating creating tables (main, relaxed) on the main platform, and not the casual platform? Is this right? (In other words, they have their own private little room?) Therefore the table becomes inaccessible to all who arrive after the table is in play? That certainly explains why I can see friends playing when I first log on, but can't get to their table.

You should be able to join a friend at a table created by a legacy client but you will not be able to find the table in any list. Bring up their profile and 'Join' them.

Georooney, on 2020-June-02, 01:24, said:

But why does the programming not prevent legacy clients from creating a table on the wrong platform? For that matter, why does the program not reject legacy clients altogether, as the objective is clearly to move to the new program. Yes, it may be painful for some legacy clients. But like pulling a sliver, it's better to have a short jab of pain that a long drawn out one.

BBO has said about 10% of the user base is using legacy clients. There are also some aspects, like providing Vugraph, that still rely on a legacy client and some tasks, like running large tournaments, that are perceived as easier on a legacy client.

BBO knows its user base better than I do and presumably these are only some of the reasons to keep supporting them.

[Georooney]

paulg, on 2020-May-15, 07:50, said:

If you are using a legacy client, like the original Windows client or Flash client, then you should be aware that you are responsible for causing additional confusion with the new architecture.

Why, oh why, is BBO allowing players with legacy clients to start tables? As I understand it, these tables are started on the main server because the legacy client cannot access the casual server. Does this not defeat the purpose of moving main and relaxed tables to the new casual server?

It's no fun to log in to see your friends playing on the main server and because i am using the new version, I can't get to their tables. When I move to the casual server, of course they disappear altogether.

I've found a work-around, in that I open a friend's profile then click on 'join'. I have no idea in advance whose table I'm going to land on, or what room it's in, or even if I will be allowed to join the table.

CAn we please standardize the process, so all players in the main and relaxed rooms are in the same location? Perhaps fix the glitch that allows players with legacy clients tp click on the casual option, since that selection doesn't work; ie: they are not moved to the casual server at all, but to main and relaxed room that seem to still exist on the main server. Perhaps simply remove these rooms from the main server, as they're been replaced by rooms in the new casual server.

Apologies for my verbosity; it's hard to explain this in a few words.

[Georooney]

paulg, on 2020-June-02, 05:42, said:

BBO has said about 10% of the user base is using legacy clients. There are also some aspects, like providing Vugraph, that still rely on a legacy client and some tasks, like running large tournaments, that are perceived as easier on a legacy client.

So, it appears BBO has one foot in the boat and the other on the dock.

If nothing else, remove the location of the old main and relaxed rooms in the main server.

I will do my utmost to educate friends that if they continue to use a legacy client, I (and 90% of BBO players) will be unable to play with them.

[RuflRabbit]

I and my BBO friends have not been having any trouble at all joining tables initiated on the main server. I'm not sure I understand what problem others have been having.

I do, however, have some friends who are on the legacy versions and they can't join me if I set up a table on the casual server. Other than through use of the legacy versions, is there a way that I can set up a table on the main server?

[paulg]

RuflRabbit, on 2020-June-05, 17:06, said:

I and my BBO friends have not been having any trouble at all joining tables initiated on the main server. I'm not sure I understand what problem others have been having.

I do, however, have some friends who are on the legacy versions and they can't join me if I set up a table on the casual server. Other than through use of the legacy versions, is there a way that I can set up a table on the main server?

No.

I think the 'others' have not done a good job of describing their problem: I believe they are struggling (as it is impossible) to find lists of tables on the main table where they expect to find their friends, or acquaintances, on. They can only join the tables through profiles; if they are not following them it is impossible. I suspect this is a lack of experience than really a problem per se.

For example, if a friend says that they are online and in the Acol Club, but they are really in the main server Acol Club then you will never find them.

[enigmisto]

We definitely had a lot of difficulty setting up a casual game among four friends. This explains some of that difficulty.

A larger problem is that whenever we'd pause playing for a moment to have a friendly discussion about the hand, whoever's turn it was would get kicked out of the game and replaced by a bot. It was really frustrating. What can we do to configure or remove the timeout when playing casually among friends?

[paulg]

enigmisto, on 2020-June-17, 19:41, said:

A larger problem is that whenever we'd pause playing for a moment to have a friendly discussion about the hand, whoever's turn it was would get kicked out of the game and replaced by a bot. It was really frustrating. What can we do to configure or remove the timeout when playing casually among friends?

It's best to find a more relevant thread, or start a new one, with a new problem as it's likely to get missed when it's tacked onto an old one.

But if you set 'Permission required to play' in the table options, then you will not get booted.

[661_Pete]

paulg, on 2020-May-15, 07:50, said:

Thus there are now two Acol Clubs, one on the Casual platform and one on the main BBO platform.

Indeed. I found this out for myself, the hard way. A pity one has to trawl all the way through this forum to find the information.

paulg, on 2020-May-15, 07:50, said:

If you are using a legacy client, like the original Windows client or Flash client, then you should be aware that you are responsible for causing additional confusion with the new architecture.

Thanks a lot for calling us users of BBO the 'guilty' ones in this little fiasco!!!

I don't give a damn whether Flash is set to be 'deprecated', whether we ought to be 'punished' for still using the flash version. It wasn't my choice to abolish Flash, thank you very much!

You want to know why I'm still using the Flash version, some of the time? It's because I'm accustomed to playing REAL bridge, with REAL cards, with a layout on the screen that I can feel COMFORTABLE with! I do NOT want to play from a hand diagram, nor from those apologies for card representations with only one pip and a number on them.

Has anyone who took part in designing the new UI, ever seen a pack of real playing cards?

I want to see completed tricks laid out on the table in the same way as we do in live bridge. I.e. with cards laid face-down in a row on the table, tricks won with the card pointed towards myself and partner, tricks lost with the card pointed towards the opponents. Isn't that the way all live duplicate players manage their cards?

I don't want to have to constantly drag the 'separator' bars left and right, up and down, just so that I can see all the text in the various fields. I play on a computer with a monitor resolution of 1280 x 1024. Isn't that enough now? Do I have to buy a bigger monitor, just to keep up with BBO's addiction to 'improvement'?

Quote

I suspect that you will believe that it is BBO's fault that they are not accommodating your preferences and maintaining an ancient piece of software or a insecure Flash client and that the later clients have lost important, almost vital, features. I may even agree, but I just ask that you be aware of the confusion you are now inducing.

If I am inducing confusion, confusion there shall be. I didn't ask for these changes!

[mycroft]

You are using a version of the server client that has explicitly not been maintained for the better part of a year. They have told you, for the better part of a year, that this is the case. It is possible, but really hard, to get to it - for a reason.

New features they implement likely won't work.

You are entitled to use deprecated software - I do it all the time. You are not entitled to have that smooth and easy, or with all the latest options.

Your choice.

Please note that I agree with many of your frustrations (as well as others). I have moved to V3 anyway, because I knew I had to learn to deal with it in time.

[0 carbon]

If you are on the main screen, without choose Casual or Competitive. where are you?
Can you invite to tourneys? To Relaxed bridge? Either? Both?

[0 carbon]

But the flash version is still so much better. You see everything. People have categories and colours.
Especially for TDs, you know who you have banned and who is the most polite.
The new version is like a baby, valuable, but incapable.

[barmar]

0 carbon, on 2020-July-14, 17:10, said:

If you are on the main screen, without choose Casual or Competitive. where are you?
Can you invite to tourneys? To Relaxed bridge? Either? Both?

You're on the original, main server. The only time you're on the casual server is when you click on "Casual".

You can be invited to tourneys when you're on the main server, not when you're on the casual server.

The relaxed club exists on both the main and casual servers. Someone using the Windows or Flash versions goes to the relaxed club on the main server, someone using the HTML version goes on the casual server.

If someone wants to invite you to a table, you have to be on the same server as them, and you'll go to the table on that server.