[cencio]

Recommend the most correct bid

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[Cyberyeti]

S should bid 2♥ instead of double unless you play negative free bids, then it's easy

[DavidKok]

South misbid three times.

[mycroft]

Yes, 2♥ in this auction in standard agreements shows:

• 5+ hearts, and
  
• 10+ points.

Which is what South has.

His auction (double and double again) tends to deny the 10+ points, and is just competitive. I'd probably still want to play the (potentially Moysian, but probably not) heart contract with an AQxxx side suit (that has some support - here, KJ is amazing, but the double does imply "willing to sit for 3♣", because matchpoints (and because long suits can take tricks even if not trump).

I would probably get arguments about the difference here between the second X and 3♥ (given that we are going to balance against 2-of-a-fit almost certainly), but that's subtle enough for next week's discussion.

But having shown 10+/5+, partner's 4♥ (or 3♠, if he thinks his hand isn't minimum game acceptance) should be automatic.

[michel444]

the Double isn't to bad . the question is what you ecpect partner to hold
partner have
1: balanced hand 3-5 club 2-4 ♥ 2-4 ♠ 2-3♦
2. long club
3 .unbalanced with long club and 4 red cards
4.?
to tell partner I have 4♥ and Maybe 4 cards minor you remove from partner the informmation on the 5Th hearts.
and partner is unlikely to have 4 cards♦


how much Point promise 2 Heart is a matter of agreement .
had similar situation in past
1♦ 1♠ Double 2♠
pass pass double pass
pass
my hand was 2=3=4=4 with 11 HPC partner was angry on second pass

[mikeh]

mycroft, on 2022-October-05, 14:01, said:

Yes, 2♥ in this auction in standard agreements shows:

• 5+ hearts, and
  
• 10+ points.

Which is what South has.

His auction (double and double again) tends to deny the 10+ points, and is just competitive. I'd probably still want to play the (potentially Moysian, but probably not) heart contract with an AQxxx side suit (that has some support - here, KJ is amazing, but the double does imply "willing to sit for 3♣", because matchpoints (and because long suits can take tricks even if not trump).

I would probably get arguments about the difference here between the second X and 3♥ (given that we are going to balance against 2-of-a-fit almost certainly), but that's subtle enough for next week's discussion.

But having shown 10+/5+, partner's 4♥ (or 3♠, if he thinks his hand isn't minimum game acceptance) should be automatic.

Your description of the second double would probably surprise pretty much everyone with whom I play.

The second double doesn’t tend to deny 10 hcp….in fact, given that we are asking partner to compete to the 3-level despite not having identified a trump suit…and further given that on occasion opener may pass the double….I think most experienced players would prefer to say that the double tends to deliver at least 10 hcp…the exact dividing line depends on style and agreements. Personally I might have a 9 count at the lower boundary, but it’s very wide ranging on the upside.

As for an initial double then 3H….wow. 3H should deliver at least six hearts. And it’s weaker than an original 2H. Say x QJ10xxx Kx Qxx. I’d probably double with that, rather than overstate my values via 2H.

I do, however, agree that responder has a clear 2H bid at his first turn, showing 5+ and establishing a one round force (which is off once spades are raised).

Opener has a normal 3H bid. He has a sound opening bid, ignoring the wasted spade Jack.

If he passed, responder can double at his second turn, and now opener jumps to 4H.

[mycroft]

Yeah, listen to Mike over me about the second round actions after the initial double. I don't actually understand them (which is why I said I probably would get arguments), and will be listening to Mike myself.

But I do wonder what I do with the 1-5-4-3 6-count that can't double, can't 3♥, and shouldn't (?) pass.

Again, "next week's lesson", in N/B, though.

[paulg]

mycroft, on 2022-October-06, 08:33, said:

But I do wonder what I do with the 1-5-4-3 6-count that can't double, can't 3♥, and shouldn't (?) pass.

Why can you not double with this hand?

It is minimum but you have a fifth heart as compensation. If partner rebids one no trump, the worst rebid for you, then you can decide whether to rebid a quiet 2♥ or pass.

[mw64ahw]

2♥ looks standard here, but the initial X for me in a Transfer Walsh context is ♥ or 10/11+hcp.

The 2nd X would confirm 11+ w. or w/o ♥.

I now wondered having taken this route (as OP has) what the correct bid should be when North is max.
2NT & 3♣ Min?
3♦ ? Max.
3♥ X+♣3♥ Pass/Correct Max?
3♠ ? Max.
3NT ♣ & ♠ Max.

Any further thoughts?

[mikeh]

mw64ahw, on 2022-October-06, 10:02, said:

2♥ looks standard here, but the initial X for me in a Transfer Walsh context is ♥ or 10/11+hcp.

The 2nd X would confirm 11+ w. or w/o ♥.

I now wondered having taken this route (as OP has) what the correct bid should be when North is max.
2NT & 3♣ Min?
3♦ ? Max.
3♥ X+♣3♥ Pass/Correct Max?
3♠ ? Max.
3NT ♣ & ♠ Max.

Any further thoughts?

I play transfer Walsh. To my mind, transfer Walsh has nothing…..zero….to do with the first call by responder over 1S.

Transfer Walsh is a generic descriptor of various methods that employ 1 level transfers by responder after opener bids 1C

There are many variants….akin to ‘2/1gf’….if I sat down with an expert with whose methods I was unfamiliar and she suggested ‘transfer Walsh’, that would be just the beginning of the discussion.

For example

1. How many clubs does opener promise (I play 2+ but some play 3+)

2. If responder bids 1R, how many cards in responder’s announced major does acceptance of the ‘transfer’ show? I play 2-3 but some require 3

3. After 1C (x) what does xx mean? I play that it shows diamonds (1R shows the next higher suit)

4. After 1C 1R what does 1N show? This is linked to question 2. For me, 1N shows 17-19 but others play it as a normal 1N rebid

5. After 1C (1D) what is x? In one partnership I play negative doubles. In the other, x is a transfer to hearts (4+) and is silent about spades.


And so on.

None of these have anything to do with 1C (1S) 2H

It’s possible to play transfers there (although you have to make some fairly significant systemic compromises and I doubt that such makes overall sense) but that has nothing to do with T Walsh.

[mikeh]

mycroft, on 2022-October-06, 08:33, said:

Yeah, listen to Mike over me about the second round actions after the initial double. I don't actually understand them (which is why I said I probably would get arguments), and will be listening to Mike myself.

But I do wonder what I do with the 1-5-4-3 6-count that can't double, can't 3♥, and shouldn't (?) pass.

Again, "next week's lesson", in N/B, though.

I’m not sure what you mean. If I held a 1=5=4=3 6 count, and all my hcp were outside the spade suit, I’d double 1S. That would be a minimum double, which in turn means I have NO right nor obligation to bid again unless partner takes some strong action.

Having doubled on round one, I’ve bid my hand and any further move must be originated by partner.

Pass is the most under utilized call in bridge

[mw64ahw]

mikeh, on 2022-October-06, 11:39, said:

I play transfer Walsh. To my mind, transfer Walsh has nothing…..zero….to do with the first call by responder over 1S.

Transfer Walsh is a generic descriptor of various methods that employ 1 level transfers by responder after opener bids 1C

There are many variants….akin to ‘2/1gf’….if I sat down with an expert with whose methods I was unfamiliar and she suggested ‘transfer Walsh’, that would be just the beginning of the discussion.

For example

1. How many clubs does opener promise (I play 2+ but some play 3+)

2. If responder bids 1R, how many cards in responder’s announced major does acceptance of the ‘transfer’ show? I play 2-3 but some require 3

3. After 1C (x) what does xx mean? I play that it shows diamonds (1R shows the next higher suit)

4. After 1C 1R what does 1N show? This is linked to question 2. For me, 1N shows 17-19 but others play it as a normal 1N rebid

5. After 1C (1D) what is x? In one partnership I play negative doubles. In the other, x is a transfer to hearts (4+) and is silent about spades.


And so on.

None of these have anything to do with 1C (1S) 2H

It’s possible to play transfers there (although you have to make some fairly significant systemic compromises and I doubt that such makes overall sense) but that has nothing to do with T Walsh.

Thanks
As you say TW has nothing to do with this, but my issue is that in the TW version I use 2♥ remains pre-emptive so the first X for me is negative or 11+ leaving little room over 2♠ to move forward.