[apollo1201]

IMPs, team match

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Playing 5cM, strong NT

X is t/o, 4♥, or 5+♥ but not enough strength to bid 2♥, 2♣ was probably a better bid

Anyway, dummy wasn't a pleasant surprise but things started well on the K♠ lead won in dummy, followed by small ♥ to J, winning, and small from hand, A on my left crashing his partner's now blank K. Sigh of relief, some furious faces from E, then another ♥ followed. I thought I was home, but with ♣ 0-5 and ♦ 5-2, and no further defensive slip, I ended up a trick short, unable to set up any suit.

We still gained 3 IMPs as the opponents in the other room also arrived to 6♥ after an even less convincing sequence, but teammates managed to separately score K and A, and W had his ♣ ruff too

All ends well, but who is guilty?

[johnu]

North making a slam try by bidding 4♠ is a little aggressive. ♠A may not be worth anything opposite a void, and trumps are good but not great. Partner rates (certainty?) to have an unbalanced hand, and how valuable is the void in diamonds opposite partner's long suit?

I'm not saying I wouldn't make a slam try, but I would recognize that it was an aggressive call. I would also cue bid 5♣ as South with 3 first round controls and an excellent source of playing tricks in diamonds.

I definitely would not have jumped to slam after the 5♣ cue bid. I think 5♥ is all you can bid as even Kxxx in hearts makes slam less than 50%.

It would help to know whether North should have bid 3♠ in their system before bidding hearts.

[apollo1201]

johnu, on 2020-February-01, 03:58, said:

It would help to know whether North should have bid 3♠ in their system before bidding hearts.

3S should be a bit more. First image is like a 1453 with better H and 17-18. First time we played as my usual partner was out for business trip. At least this is how I would interpret it and I felt a bit weak for this. Or for 4D as well.

[FelicityR]

I prefer - just an opinion - South bidding 3♠ before bidding 4♥. 4♥ immediately suggests - to me - better trump support than Jxxx.
South has a good hand worth 4♥ but is there any harm saving a round of bidding by keeping it open with 3♠? When North takes 3♠ as asking for a ♠ stop for 3NT - my interpretation - and then South removes this to 4♥ I feel North will be in better position to judge whether his/her cards are working.

[mikeh]

The question of what South should bid at his second turn is interesting. Generally speaking, if there is timing available, 4H shows a shapely, playing strength, raise to game with little slam interest (though partner is not the least bit barred) and a power raise to game starts with 3S. However, all really strong hands start with 3S, and so the call does not promise hearts. South might, for example, want to play 3N opposite a stopper. Over 3S, partner makes the cheapest descriptive bid to allow South to clarify his meaning.

However, the void in spades matters. South can have hands where he fears a 4S bump on his left, and now has to either fail to show hearts or commit to the five level opposite a possibly minimum double.

All of this is by way of saying that I have sympathy for 4H.

I have sympathy for the double as well. The void in partner’s suit is reason to downgrade a little, and North can’t yet diagnose south’s spade shortage, with the implication of some fit in a rounded suit.

As for the 5C cue, which I think triggered north’s leap, some partnerships (mine for example) play that cuebidding below game is not mandatory.....one can refuse to cue if ones hand is minimum in context....but that once one partner cues beyond our game, cuebidding is mandatory. Thus once partner bid 4S I have to show the club carD.

So I sympathize with the result. If I have one criticism it’s probably that I think north has slam interest but not a slam force. I think 5H over 5C is sufficient. 4S was a slam try, and weak trump are always grounds for caution. Make South Kxxx in hearts, and slam is poor yet south has a far better hand.

[fromageGB]

South at fault for the 4♥ bid. Do you really want to play in 4♥ if N has the same hand but xx in place of ♣KQ? I wouldn't.

[KingCovert]

fromageGB, on 2020-February-01, 10:26, said:

South at fault for the 4♥ bid. Do you really want to play in 4♥ if N has the same hand but xx in place of ♣KQ? I wouldn't.

Would I want to play game at IMPs with AKQXXX on the side, an 8 card trump suit AND another Ace on the side AND a void on the side?

Yes. I would. Opposite absolutely any hand with 4 hearts. I will win IMPs on average. If they let me play it. Sometimes it's a good sacrifice on the hands I don't make. Of course, partner has shown values and so this is absolutely automatic.

The only question is on the best sequence to represent your hand.

[apollo1201]

fromageGB, on 2020-February-01, 10:26, said:

South at fault for the 4♥ bid. Do you really want to play in 4♥ if N has the same hand but xx in place of ♣KQ? I wouldn't.

Not to justify my bidding, but p would hardly has their 1st bid in that case. 7HCPs only, void in partner’s suit, and strong opposition in overcaller’s suit.

[dsLawsd]

A bit unlucky, but at a high level trump quality is key.
Both are a bit at fault because Jxxx leaves too many holes and the A of spades may be an indication of a misfit when the diamond void is considered. Bidding 3♥ at Imps is sufficient unless 3♠
guarantees holding 4 + a void.
But the worst bad luck is that neither partner can make a key card or trump ask holding a void safely.

In any case NORTH should sign off at 5. Win the match on some other board?

[nekthen]

Why doesn't S check for trump quality with 4N?
The ♠ void is irrelevant. N has already shown A♠ so your methods should allow for responses that are not ambiguous
N is entitled to expect better trumps when S bypasses 4N to cue bid ♣

[apollo1201]

dsLawsd, on 2020-February-02, 02:55, said:

Win the match on some other board ?

Thanks. We won the segment by 1 😅...but had -10 or so to catch up from the 1st half of the boards😕

[nige1]

'apollo1201 "IMPs, team match. Playing 5cM, strong NT. X is t/o, 4♥, or 5+♥ but not enough strength to bid 2♥, 2♣ was probably a better bid. Anyway, dummy wasn't a pleasant surprise but things started well on the K♠ lead won in dummy, followed by small ♥ to J, winning, and small from hand, A on my left crashing his partner's now blank K. Sigh of relief, some furious faces from E, then another ♥ followed. I thought I was home, but with ♣ 0-5 and ♦ 5-2, and no further defensive slip, I ended up a trick short, unable to set up any suit. We still gained 3 IMPs as the opponents in the other room also arrived to 6♥ after an even less convincing sequence, but teammates managed to separately score K and A, and W had his ♣ ruff too All ends well, but who is guilty?
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
IMO Rub of the green, again. The bidding is unlucky: North's double is fine, South's 4♥ is OK, North can hardly be blamed for going on.

Presumably, West held both ♦J and ♦T

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[bluenikki]

apollo1201, on 2020-February-01, 03:09, said:

IMPs, team match

---

Playing 5cM, strong NT

X is t/o, 4♥, or 5+♥ but not enough strength to bid 2♥, 2♣ was probably a better bid

Anyway, dummy wasn't a pleasant surprise but things started well on the K♠ lead won in dummy, followed by small ♥ to J, winning, and small from hand, A on my left crashing his partner's now blank K. Sigh of relief, some furious faces from E, then another ♥ followed. I thought I was home, but with ♣ 0-5 and ♦ 5-2, and no further defensive slip, I ended up a trick short, unable to set up any suit.

We still gained 3 IMPs as the opponents in the other room also arrived to 6♥ after an even less convincing sequence, but teammates managed to separately score K and A, and W had his ♣ ruff too

All ends well, but who is guilty?

North should certainly be interested in slam.

Does North have a bid that asks for good trumps? If not, why not?

[bluenikki]

nekthen, on 2020-February-02, 05:41, said:

Why doesn't S check for trump quality with 4N?
The ♠ void is irrelevant. N has already shown A♠ so your methods should allow for responses that are not ambiguous
N is entitled to expect better trumps when S bypasses 4N to cue bid ♣

4NT with void is ......

[msjennifer]

Sir ,I, personally would not bid 4S with the North cards.He almost decided to play a slam by that bid.His 6H bid was not justified and considering the D void and the not so useful SJ should have just bid 5H to ask partner to bid 6H with two top honors in Hearts..

[ruleof15]

apollo1201, on 2020-February-01, 03:09, said:

IMPs, team match

---

Playing 5cM, strong NT

X is t/o, 4♥, or 5+♥ but not enough strength to bid 2♥, 2♣ was probably a better bid

Anyway, dummy wasn't a pleasant surprise but things started well on the K♠ lead won in dummy, followed by small ♥ to J, winning, and small from hand, A on my left crashing his partner's now blank K. Sigh of relief, some furious faces from E, then another ♥ followed. I thought I was home, but with ♣ 0-5 and ♦ 5-2, and no further defensive slip, I ended up a trick short, unable to set up any suit.

We still gained 3 IMPs as the opponents in the other room also arrived to 6♥ after an even less convincing sequence, but teammates managed to separately score K and A, and W had his ♣ ruff too

All ends well, but who is guilty?

[ruleof15]

Holding the AJ in the opponents over-calling suit should sound an alarm. Where is their "stuff" to overcall? Is the AJ going to be wastage? With holding a 4-card suit in the opponents bid, how many cards is my partner likely to have? As a partnership there should be a different value for a free bid of 3H and a forced bid of 3H. 3H should show extras, about 5+HCP and be game forcing. In this case about 14HCP. Had E passed, 2H would be a forced bid, 3H would be invitational based on doubler having a minimum hand for the double and 4H would be a hand to play at game when holding a minimum. i am sure the 4H bid was based on the S void.
Failure to think causes more bad bidding. North had all the information to make the correct bid. But decided to play "Cowboy" bridge.