[1mullida]

Tp me, it would be much better if the system was set up so that the bidding for the hand remained present as the hand was being played. It is now only present for 2 or 3 seconds, max. It is difficult to memorize the bidding in this time period. If I had more time to see what the biddding was, I would be able to make my bids and play my hand better.

Dave Mulligan
1mullida

[Vampyr]

 1mullida, on 2020-January-18, 06:17, said:

Tp me, it would be much better if the system was set up so that the bidding for the hand remained present as the hand was being played. It is now only present for 2 or 3 seconds, max. It is difficult to memorize the bidding in this time period. If I had more time to see what the biddding was, I would be able to make my bids and play my hand better.

Dave Mulligan
1mullida

How would they respond to this request at your local club?

BBO is intended to provide a game that approximates bridge. Changes going in the opposite direction are therefore not going to be implemented.

However, in most jurisdictions the auction is displayed until dummy is faced. So keeping it visible for that amount of time is reasonable.

[mycroft]

The bidding should be visible until you play your first card. After that, you are entitled by Law to the contract only, not the bidding.

As Vampyr says, why should things be different online?

[sfi]

You should be able to click the final contract at any time to show the bidding.

[Vampyr]

 mycroft, on 2020-January-18, 21:52, said:

As Vampyr says, why should things be different online?

 sfi, on 2020-January-19, 03:28, said:

You should be able to click the final contract at any time to show the bidding.

Oh, for pity’s sake! Really?

When is this site going to stop calling itself “Bridge” Base Online. It is false advertising.

[mythdoc]

Online is just different. That seems beyond obvious to me. In a real life game, the bidding of a complicated hand can take a minute. Online, it is what, fifteen seconds? In a “just declare” game, it is flashed upon the screen for what, two seconds? For a “slow processor” like myself, it is v disconcerting.

Since I picked up the game again, now playing exclusively online instead of exclusively in duplicate games and tournaments, I experience a “flying blind” feeling, often. What that is, I recently concluded, is the missing intuitive aspect of playing the game IRL, that was a strength in my game.. Maybe if I eventually play something other than individual games I’ll feel that there are unfair aspects to allowing the bidding to be accessed. For now, it seems the fairest to me.

[mycroft]

*Before you play your first card*, you can review the bidding. If that is not the case, there is a programming problem that should be fixed. Otherwise, you are in total control of "how fast" the bidding goes away.

If you play too fast to trick 1, and block yourself or lose the critical entry, that is a bridge problem and you should slow down; the game shouldn't allow you backsies.

If you play too fast to trick 1, and don't have the bidding under control, that is a bridge problem and you should slow down; the game shouldn't allow you backsies.

I will note that there is a technological solution to this issue, if you choose to want to violate the Law when playing online. We can't stop you. It's about 5000 years old, actually. It does have the problem that when you take your retrained memory to the congress, you won't be able to use that solution there, of course. But for a "less serious, maybe distracted" game, it's probably okay.

[barmar]

 mycroft, on 2020-January-21, 10:28, said:

I will note that there is a technological solution to this issue, if you choose to want to violate the Law when playing online. We can't stop you. It's about 5000 years old, actually. It does have the problem that when you take your retrained memory to the congress, you won't be able to use that solution there, of course. But for a "less serious, maybe distracted" game, it's probably okay.

Right.

There's also a law against looking at your own CC while playing. I confess violating this one when playing online with infrequent partners. The opponents never complain, I guess they don't care.

[DaveRolyat]

I'd advocate that BBO approximates to real bridge practices where possible.

i) Bidding hidden after first card played

ii) Even more importantly, partner alerts and explains the meaning of a bid, rather than the bidder.

Both seem so easy to get right.

[HeavyDluxe]

 DaveRolyat, on 2020-January-22, 10:43, said:

I'd advocate that BBO approximates to real bridge practices where possible.

i) Bidding hidden after first card played

ii) Even more importantly, partner alerts and explains the meaning of a bid, rather than the bidder.

Both seem so easy to get right.

I think we, as bridge players, need to consider getting a little less 'gatekeep-y' over what is 'real bridge' if we want the game to survive.

If this should be ANYTHING other than just a 'BBO works like this', then it should be a table, tournament, or match setting. Casual, beginner games can leverage the more 'open' settings and competitive tables/games can go whole hog.

[mycroft]

 DaveRolyat, on 2020-January-22, 10:43, said:

I'd advocate that BBO approximates to real bridge practices where possible.

i) Bidding hidden after first card played

ii) Even more importantly, partner alerts and explains the meaning of a bid, rather than the bidder.

Both seem so easy to get right.

Hey, whenever I play *real* bridge - I mean, important bridge, not just a regional or whatever - I alert and explain both my calls and my partner's. And so do they.

By regulation, not Law - but note that the Law says "except on the instruction of the Director" (which is where the screen regulations come from. Interestingly, it takes some Endicottian maneuvering to make that work; something I should mention to the Laws Commission people for possible adjustment. But if it allows for Screen regulations, then definitely the same allowance can be made for BBO.)

[barmar]

 DaveRolyat, on 2020-January-22, 10:43, said:

ii) Even more importantly, partner alerts and explains the meaning of a bid, rather than the bidder.

Self-alerts are the norm in most online bridge services, and it seems eminently reasonable.

The reason we use partner-alerts in f2f bridge is to avoid passing UI to partner about your actual hand. But in online bridge, partner doesn't see your alerts, so that's not a concern.

If there's a misunderstanding within the partnership, it's equally possible that one of them will give an incorrect explanation. If this is going to happen, it seems more fair to the opponents that they should get a misexplanation that actually describes the hand.

[pescetom]

 barmar, on 2020-January-23, 09:07, said:

Self-alerts are the norm in most online bridge services, and it seems eminently reasonable.

The reason we use partner-alerts in f2f bridge is to avoid passing UI to partner about your actual hand. But in online bridge, partner doesn't see your alerts, so that's not a concern.

If there's a misunderstanding within the partnership, it's equally possible that one of them will give an incorrect explanation. If this is going to happen, it seems more fair to the opponents that they should get a misexplanation that actually describes the hand.

Sure. Could you please give more detail of how it works on BBO? Does the player who requests explanation receive explanations from both opponents, or only from the one who made the call, or only from his virtual screen-mate?

[barmar]

 pescetom, on 2020-January-23, 17:26, said:

Sure. Could you please give more detail of how it works on BBO? Does the player who requests explanation receive explanations from both opponents, or only from the one who made the call, or only from his virtual screen-mate?

Only the player who made the call, and it's visible to both opponents (but not the partner of the explainer, until after the hand is over). So it's not "virtual screens", and you don't run into the problem of getting different explanations on each side of the screen.

[cmsjw5]

This discussion seems to have flown off at several unhelpful tangents.

The answer to the original poster is that you CAN see the bidding at any time by clicking on the depiction of the final contract - at the bottom right corner of the table.
Clicking again restores the display of the current trick.

SFI pointed this out earlier, but you were all too busy arguing to notice

[Vampyr]

 cmsjw5, on 2020-January-26, 14:53, said:

This discussion seems to have flown off at several unhelpful tangents.

The answer to the original poster is that you CAN see the bidding at any time by clicking on the depiction of the final contract - at the bottom right corner of the table.
Clicking again restores the display of the current trick.

SFI pointed this out earlier, but you were all too busy arguing to notice

No, everyone saw that and moved on.