[luke warm]

i think it was just a typo ... i particularly liked gabor's point about hearts being better from partner's side, and also richie's point about not letting the opps slide when they get frisky... it seems to me that if hearts is right, it's right after x, but i can see how confusion as to the purpose of x might enter into it

[han]

Double should clearly be take-out in my opinion, but the hearts are so much better than the clubs that I would bid 2H.

[Walddk]

[quote name='flytoox' date='May 17 2005, 05:47 AM'] [quote name='Walddk' date='May 16 2005, 11:46 PM'] I subscribe to the following rule that has served me well during my long career:

Double of low level contracts are for take-out, unless preceded by redouble, or if it's obvious that the opponents have a misfit.

Accordingly, double of 2[di] is for take-out, because nothing of the above is clear (no redouble earlier, and not obvious that they have a misfit). But that doesn't necessarily mean that I think double is best.

You will see when Ben posts the panel's view.



You are stting behind. They didnt show an obvious fit. [/quote]
Read my post again please. I said that it must be obvious that they have a misfit before double is for penalty. It's not obvious here, so in my view double of 2[di] is for take-out - although I think 2[he] is a better bid as you see.

I'll ask Mike in a couple of days. Unlike you I am certain that he agrees.

Roland

[whereagles]

Walddk, on May 18 2005, 10:54 PM, said:

I said that it must be obvious that they have a misfit before double is for penalty.

The problem with the rule of being "obvious" is that in some hands it might be obvious to you, but not to partner

[Walddk]

[quote name='Walddk' date='May 18 2005, 05:54 PM'] [quote name='flytoox' date='May 17 2005, 05:47 AM'] [quote name='Walddk' date='May 16 2005, 11:46 PM'] I subscribe to the following rule that has served me well during my long career:

Double of low level contracts are for take-out, unless preceded by redouble, or if it's obvious that the opponents have a misfit.

Accordingly, double of 2[di] is for take-out, because nothing of the above is clear (no redouble earlier, and not obvious that they have a misfit). But that doesn't necessarily mean that I think double is best.

You will see when Ben posts the panel's view.



You are stting behind. They didnt show an obvious fit. [/QUOTE]
Read my post again please. I said that it must be obvious that they have a misfit before double is for penalty. It's not obvious here, so in my view double of 2[di] is for take-out - although I think 2[he] is a better bid as you see.

I'll ask Mike in a couple of days. Unlike you I am certain that he agrees.

Roland [/quote]
I asked Mike Lawrence in Scotland yesterday:

"I like to play double as take-out. Extras but never with 4 hearts. If I have 4 hearts, I will bid them".

Roland

[Double !]

AMAZING

One of the finest players and an excellent bridge author suggesting that one bid one's hand naturally. And agreeing with another of the finest.
Will wonders never cease?

Thank you for the post, Roland.

[flytoox]

[quote name='Walddk' date='May 23 2005, 09:20 PM'] [quote name='Walddk' date='May 18 2005, 05:54 PM'] [quote name='flytoox' date='May 17 2005, 05:47 AM'] [quote name='Walddk' date='May 16 2005, 11:46 PM'] I subscribe to the following rule that has served me well during my long career:

Double of low level contracts are for take-out, unless preceded by redouble, or if it's obvious that the opponents have a misfit.

Accordingly, double of 2[di] is for take-out, because nothing of the above is clear (no redouble earlier, and not obvious that they have a misfit). But that doesn't necessarily mean that I think double is best.

You will see when Ben posts the panel's view.



You are stting behind. They didnt show an obvious fit. [/QUOTE]
Read my post again please. I said that it must be obvious that they have a misfit before double is for penalty. It's not obvious here, so in my view double of 2[di] is for take-out - although I think 2[he] is a better bid as you see.

I'll ask Mike in a couple of days. Unlike you I am certain that he agrees.

Roland [/QUOTE]
I asked Mike Lawrence in Scotland yesterday:

"I like to play double as take-out. Extras but never with 4 hearts. If I have 4 hearts, I will bid them".

Roland [/quote]
Thx Roland. Time for me to change the style:)

[Al_U_Card]

Gotta buck the trend (again, sigh) I would pass, as pard has shown something, but my hand has yet to grow beyond what the 1S opening bid showed. If he takes action, then other bids by me (and my now known minimum) become clearer. DBL shows the very good hand, ready to play in 3 clubs opposite the 1-2-4-6 stinker with 5 hcp. 2H bid freely shows a max with 5-5 or the bigger hand without club tolerance and inability to bid 2NT (18-19). "Never rebid the same values if you can avoid it." (C. Goren).

[Walddk]

I couldn't agree more Justin. By the way, Mike Lawrence would bid 2♥ no matter how weak the suit is. It's not responder's job to find out if I forgot to bid a suit I could have shown without any effort.

Roland

[luke warm]

i understand what you guys are saying, and if that many good players agree that 2h is right, it must be so... but i don't understand how justin's "..if you have a heart fit this could be your last chance to find it." and roland's "It's not responder's job to find out if I forgot to bid a suit I could have shown without any effort." are hurt by the takeout double...

anyway, with this or a similar hand in the future i'll probably bid the hearts... it's true that any bid might be correct on any given layout, but fwiw here is the full hand

Scoring: MP

1S - P - 1NT - 2D
X - all pass

---

on this particular hand, x worked out while 2H would work better on another hand, but one thing seems certain - by always bidding 2H there will never be a chance to penalize the opps

[luke warm]

ahhh ok, i misread

[Al_U_Card]

Mike Lawrence is my FAVORITE pro. I respect his opinion enuf to change my mind. My only problem is that HE plays well enuf to cover his bids. My pards and I are another kettle of fish! My principle was that overcalls after the 1NT forcing are often good suits in good hands. Partner is well placed to know if the opp has stepped out. Bidding 2H is unilateral while passing does not deny 4H in a minimum type hand (by me and not Mike L.). I always like pard to have his say, when penalties are possible. From now on, with that kind of a solid opener with 4H I will double and see how it works.