[Tramticket]

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Match Points

What now?

[apollo1201]

At least it wasn’t opened 2C like some might have perpetrated.

I don’t know how to find DK and CA. But 5H or 6D should be popular choices I guess.

[Tramticket]

apollo1201, on 2019-August-02, 02:09, said:

I don’t know how to find DK and CA. But 5H or 6D should be popular choices I guess.

My bidding box doesn't have a "5H or 6D" bidding card, it only allows single bids ...

[pescetom]

I bid 5♥ Exclusion with any known partner.

[HardVector]

Partner is a passed hand, I would think a little caution is in order. After the 4h preempt, what does your partner's double mean? I normally play that negative doubles are used up to 4d with doubles above that as "cooperative". Some like them to be completely penalty. If it's penalty, I'm not liking the slam because partner may have too much in hearts to be useful. If it's cooperative, then a slam becomes much more likely. If it's negative, then slam is probably a guarantee and now you are wondering about the grand.

If you have no agreements in place, or if X is penalty, I'm just bidding 5d. Partner should picture a hand that is unwilling to sit for the penalty of 4h and bid appropriately. 5d is not a shut out, but an opportunity for partner to evaluate their holding.

If it's just cooperative, I'm going to shrug and bid 6d.

If it's negative, I'll bid 5h.

[FelicityR]

Even with the big two suiter, with the void in ♥s I'm, in my opinion, totally unsuited to the penalty double of ♥s. I'll just bid 5♦ to show my hand. Partner can cuss and curse me but bidding in these situations leave the opponents more at a guess than my partner (who's already passed).

[mikeh]

Partner is a passed hand but there is no reason he can't hold xx xxx Kxxx AKxx.

He can't bid over 6D with that hand, since he may and could properly assume that this is what I was playing him for when I bid 6D.

So since there is no way I am not bidding slam, and since there is some chance that grand is excellent, I owe him 5H, then over 5S or 5N or 6C, I bid 6D, showing my heart control and inviting grand.

[KingCovert]

I don't think we should assume 4♥ is a preempt here. I can think of a lot of hands holding two small spades on this auction that would think 4♥ is a good contract, have little/no slam interest, and want to minimize the chance of opponents competing in ♠. I realize this last part can sound like "preempt", but this auction is more likely to contain an outside ace (A♣) etc... We should adjust our perspective according?

My agreement would have X as negative here, I'd probably bid 4NT, asking partner to bid their preferred minor, thinking something like the following:
5♣ --> Bid 5♦: Should clearly show a hand like this? Since I never had any intention to play 5♣. Partner can raise when they feel strongly about their hand.
5♦ --> Bid 5♥: I didn't convert to 5♠ so this is a clear slam force looking for grand in diamonds. It should show a first round control in ♥, since surely 5NT really can't be a King ask, that's just a general "Pick-The-Best-Slam" bid. I've also right sided this contract for partner to receive a club lead up to their hand when missing the A♣.

I don't agree with insisting on playing slam here, KX♦and the A♣ in the 4♥ bidder's hand and you've got no hope. There is no reason why they don't hold those cards whatsoever. I'd personally opt for a more constructive sequence as described.

[mikeh]

KingCovert, on 2019-August-02, 13:47, said:

I don't think we should assume 4♥ is a preempt here. I can think of a lot of hands holding two small spades on this auction that would think 4♥ is a good contract, have little/no slam interest, and want to minimize the chance of opponents competing in ♠. I realize this last part can sound like "preempt", but this auction is more likely to contain an outside ace (A♣) etc... We should adjust our perspective according?

My agreement would have X as negative here, I'd probably bid 4NT, asking partner to bid their preferred minor, thinking something like the following:
5♣ --> Bid 5♦: Should clearly show a hand like this? Since I never had any intention to play 5♣. Partner can raise when they feel strongly about their hand.
5♦ --> Bid 5♥: I didn't convert to 5♠ so this is a clear slam force looking for grand in diamonds. It should show a first round control in ♥, since surely 5NT really can't be a King ask, that's just a general "Pick-The-Best-Slam" bid. I've also right sided this contract for partner to receive a club lead up to their hand when missing the A♣.

I don't agree with insisting on playing slam here, KX♦and the A♣ in the 4♥ bidder's hand and you've got no hope. There is no reason why they don't hold those cards whatsoever. I'd personally opt for a more constructive sequence as described.

The OP described the double as 'showing values', which is pretty much the standard usage these days, even among non-expert tournament players, at least in NA. Partner will NOT have a heart stack: the trade-off for the value showing double is that with a penalty double one passes and hopes for a reopening double.

Also, the card-showing double is usually played as showing what are known as 'transferable values', that is to say cards that will work well on offence, should opener have extreme shape, and also on defence, should opener be flat. Opener is expected to pass with a balanced hand and to bid with good shape.

Partner knows that is what his double promises. He cannot, for example, hold something like xx Qxx 10xxx KQxx. That is not a double. By the way, 6D has play opposite that, tho one would not want to be there.

Don't let your fears that the 4H bidder has defence detract from your efforts to construct hands for partner. Trust partner, rather than fear LHO.

Partner should have a near-opener, with no primary spade support, no penalty double of 4H, and a willingness to hear you bid 5D on something like AKxxxx x AQxxx x.

You have a far better hand than that: trust partner, not the opps.

Btw, the last 4H overcall I saw against 1S was two weeks ago in the North American Seniors Swiss at the NABC in Las Vegas. I didn't get to make it because my partner opened 3C in 1st chair with x xxx xx KJxxxxx (favourable, we tend to bid a lot). At the other table, that hand passed and my hand had to deal with a 1S opening, looking at xx AKJ10xxxx x 10x. Now, that's what a 4H bid looks like, far more often than a hand with the side club Ace and diamond King!

Sure, overcaller COULD hold those cards....until partner bid. Once partner showed length and strength in the minors, not committing to slam is frankly inexplicable.

[Tramticket]

Mike has pretty much predicted the hand. Partner held* 73 A72 K95 A9874.

From the above, I think that Mike is getting to seven. Unlucky, the 5-0 spade break meant that neither 7D or 7S has play, but six of either is ok.


* Yes, I would have opened a weak (12-14) NT with partner's hand, but it is close and I can't quarrel with pass.

[mikeh]

Tramticket, on 2019-August-03, 02:32, said:

Mike has pretty much predicted the hand. Partner held* 73 A72 K95 A9874.

From the above, I think that Mike is getting to seven. Unlucky, the 5-0 spade break meant that neither 7D or 7S has play, but six of either is ok.


* Yes, I would have opened a weak (12-14) NT with partner's hand, but it is close and I can't quarrel with pass.

It’s tough to be objective, knowing the hands, but I’d like to think that I’m staying out of grand, Responder has only 3 diamonds, and the chances of needing a favourable split in either spades or diamonds is too high to commit to grand. It’s not th3 fear of a 5-0 split alone or indeed mainly. Make spades 4-1, opposite many spade holdings, and we’d need luck to make grand. Give me 2=3=4=4 and I’m sure we’d reach grand, and probably make so long as the 4H bidder had 2 trump.

Also, in my serious partnerships, we’d always open partner’s hand which, ironically, makes the auction more difficult, after 1C (p) 1H (transfer) (4H) p (p)