[Walddk]

At IMPs you hold

♠K10954
♥Q8
♦AQJ2
♣J9

The bidding goes (you first):

1♠ - 2♣
2♦ - 2♥
??

2/1 or Standard, doesn't matter. 4th suit is GF according to your agreement. What do you bid now and why?

Roland

[mike777]

2NT

Bidding out shape and scattered//non concentrated HCP, not stoppers. Expect this to be minority poll view.

[HeartA]

I voted for 2NT as well. Hopefully my HQ could help to contribute one stopper (face Jxx, for example), or even 2nd stopper (face Axx or Kxx).

2S is my second choice, but ♠s are not good enough. If HQ were SQ, I would choose 2S over 2NT.

[bearmum]

Walddk, on May 13 2005, 07:51 PM, said:

At IMPs you hold

♠K10954
♥Q8
♦AQJ2
♣J9

The bidding goes (you first):

1♠ - 2♣
2♦ - 2♥
??

2/1 or Standard, doesn't matter. 4th suit is GF according to your agreement. What do you bid now and why?

Roland

2NT mainly because bidding ANYTHING else would be a lie

[helene_t]

I'm afraid it actually matters whether we play 2/1 or standard.

If 3♦ or 3♣ from responder would not have been forcing, responder may have some hand that wanted to bid either 3♦ or 3♣ forcing. This makes 2NT less attractive (though not necesarilly wrong) since responder is in principle asking for a full heart stop.

If we play 2/1, responder probably has a ballanced hand so the heart stop is more likely to be sufficient. It may not be, but 2NT may be the only way to right-side 3NT if responder has Axx.

[Walddk]

Without revealing what my choice would be (could be 2NT, who knows), I'd like to ask all the 2NT bidders:

In the post-mortem after the opponents have cashed their 5 heart tricks against 3NT, how are you going to explain to your partner that you thought Qx was a stopper?

Roland

[Walddk]

helene_t, on May 13 2005, 02:55 AM, said:

If we play 2/1, responder probably has a ballanced hand so the heart stop is more likely to be sufficient. It may not be, but 2NT may be the only way to right-side 3NT if responder has Axx.

Why a balanced hand? He could have anything. Slam interest with 3 spades, 4 diamonds and own (club) suit. He could of course be balanced with or without a heart stopper (maybe too good for 3NT if he has one), or he could be semi-balanced, 2245 and a minimum, where he is looking for NT rather than a diamond game or slam contract.

Roland

[flytoox]

Walddk, on May 13 2005, 07:59 AM, said:

Without revealing what my choice would be (could be 2NT, who knows), I'd like to ask all the 2NT bidders:

In the post-mortem after the opponents have cashed their 5 heart tricks against 3NT, how are you going to explain to your partner that you thought Qx was a stopper?

Roland

It is quite unlikely given the bid. Pd must have exactly 2335 for that to happen. And he has no HJ. However, in that case 3N might be the only game. It is possible for the opening leader to underlead from AKxxx.


2N is not ideal, but definitely least of evil.

[whereagles]

Two options:

1. 3H, asking pard for a little help in hearts to bid 3NT
2. A straight 3NT (2NT should show a stronger hand since 2H was game-forcing).

In an experienced partnership, I might try 1. Otherwise 2 is the obvious bid.

Oh.. and pls stop arguing about stoppers Stoppers only make sense if opps bid a suit, and even then it's not clear you should worry about them.

[Walddk]

whereagles, on May 13 2005, 03:10 AM, said:

Oh.. and pls stop arguing about stoppers Stoppers only make sense if opps bid a suit, and even then it's not clear you should worry about them.

I am sure partner will be understanding next time we tell him:

"OK, I went 2 down in 3NT, but why would I care about stoppers? Our system is not good enough to find out".

Pathetic.

Roland

[joker_gib]

2♠ : waiting bid : no 5♦, no stopper, no 3♣, not necessary 6♠

and I cannot understand 2NT (I want to keep my partner ! )

Alain

[P_Marlowe]

2S, the default rebid,
denying heart stopper, 3 card
support for clubs, denying 6-5.

This of coures is a matter of
partnership aggreement, some
partnerships play, that 2S shows
a 6 card suit, so they will need to
bid 3D instead.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[P_Marlowe]

joker_gib, on May 13 2005, 03:25 AM, said:

and I cannot understand 2NT (I want to keep my partner ! )

I agree, altough, I would have used the word "insane"
to describe 2 NT.
The only sane explanantion for 2NT would be, the guy
does not know Fourth Suit Forcing,in other words, he
should start with beginner lesson XX again.

With kind regards
Marlowe

[helene_t]

Walddk, on May 13 2005, 10:05 AM, said:

Why a balanced hand? He could have anything.

I'll quote the Bidding Quizes from you team-mate Mike: "Never fake a new suit when you have a non-confusing alternative". So partner rates to have a 2335, either with doubt about the heart stop or he wants you to declare.

It possible that he has something else but then he won't raise 2NT to 3NT.

[cherdano]

Walddk, on May 13 2005, 09:05 AM, said:

helene_t, on May 13 2005, 02:55 AM, said:

If we play 2/1, responder probably has a ballanced hand so the heart stop is more likely to be sufficient. It may not be, but 2NT may be the only way to right-side 3NT if responder has Axx.

Why a balanced hand? He could have anything. Slam interest with 3 spades, 4 diamonds and own (club) suit. He could of course be balanced with or without a heart stopper (maybe too good for 3NT if he has one), or he could be semi-balanced, 2245 and a minimum, where he is looking for NT rather than a diamond game or slam contract.

Roland

Maybe, but all players I have played 2/1 with would rather show their shape immediately by bidding 2 or 3♠ with 3 spades, 3♦ with 4 diamonds, and 3♣ with six clubs. I didn't switch from SAYC to 2/1 to keep inventing forcing bids when I have natural forcing bids available.

Arend

[Walddk]

helene_t, on May 13 2005, 03:43 AM, said:

I'll quote the Bidding Quizes from you team-mate Mike: "Never fake a new suit when you have a non-confusing alternative". So partner rates to have a 2335, either with doubt about the heart stop or he wants you to declare.

Another topic I am going to discuss with Mike Lawrence next week We will get some time after the match when Liz McGowan (CuttySark), one of our regular commentators, is having a reception at the venue in Edinburgh, Scotland. She turns 60.

Roland

[ochinko]

Walddk, on May 13 2005, 02:59 AM, said:

Without revealing what my choice would be (could be 2NT, who knows), I'd like to ask all the 2NT bidders:

In the post-mortem after the opponents have cashed their 5 heart tricks against 3NT, how are you going to explain to your partner that you thought Qx was a stopper?

Roland

Disasters happen, and this may well be one of them, but I voted for 2NT as well. Not that I don't care for stoppers, I usually do, but now I expect partner to has Ax or better yet Axx in hearts. Suddenly my half stopper counts, but only if I bid 2NT to make it right sided.

Petko

[Wackojack]

Is pd trying to right side the contract with H Axx, or looking for half a stop with Jxx? Or has pd got 4 diamonds and is looking for a possible slam (4th suit then delayed support = slam interest). Certainly pd with 2236 and no stop would have bid 3C not 2H. So 2NT must be right. btw in my book 2S would imply a 6-card suit. Only with something like AKJ10x, xx, KJxx, xx or even AKJ10x, xxx, KJxx. x would I consider now rebidding the spades with a 5-card suit.

Re bidding 3NT: Is it a general view that 3NT could be weaker than 2NT if the FSF bid is a GF? Is it the opposite if FSF is forcing to 2NT?

[mr1303]

I don't see why 3C hasn't been mentioned. YOu've been forced to do something, and if you would usually raise 2C to 3C with 3 card support, I don't see why you're promising more support than this.

Partner can bid 3H on the next round to ask for half a stop, should he want to.

[whereagles]

Walddk, on May 13 2005, 08:15 AM, said:

whereagles, on May 13 2005, 03:10 AM, said:

Oh.. and pls stop arguing about stoppers Stoppers only make sense if opps bid a suit, and even then it's not clear you should worry about them.

I am sure partner will be understanding next time we tell him:

"OK, I went 2 down in 3NT, but why would I care about stoppers? Our system is not good enough to find out".

Pathetic.

Roland

I'll worry about that when it happens. Meanwhile I keep bidding NT and making my games.

Also, I'd appreciate if you stop calling my opinions "pathetic".