[FelicityR]

Playing rubber bridge once again - no fancy systems or conventions - another easy slam gets missed. Though I don't believe it is at all easy to bid the slam in any system, with or without the opponent's interference. Prove me wrong. (By the way I showed this hand to my son who's an expert and plays Precision and he struggled to get to the six level.) And, as always, thank you for your replies.

These are the two hands:-

---

I know the bidding in the diagram is uninspiring but that's how it was.

[etha]

playing moscito 1♥ 1♠ 2♣ 2♦ 2♥ 2♠ 2nt 3♣ 3♥ 3♠ 4♥ 4♠ 6♣ 7♦


1♥=4+spades 11-15
1♠=game invite + relay
2♣= diamonds
2♦=GF relay all the rest of responders bids are relays.
openers bids to 3♥ show the shape which is now resolved at 4261.
3!s = zeep ask
4♥= 9 where a=3 k=2 q=1
4♠= where are your zeeps
6♣= none in clubs 2 in diamonds 2 in spades 1 in hearts which basically tells the exact hand.


So tell me what they bid over 1!h and i'll tell you how we bid 7 over that.

[johnu]

etha, on 2019-May-04, 04:13, said:

So tell me what they bid over 1!h and i'll tell you how we bid 7 over that.

Assume the opponents bid 2♥

[Cyberyeti]

1♦-(1♥)-X
2♠-3♣
3♦-4♦
4♥-4♠(0/3)
5♦(sign off opposite 0, partner bids on with 3)-6♣
7♦

It's a decent grand that could be a lot better (N could easily have ♠J or 10 which massively improve it from S's POV (or a doubleton)

I think S has taken a pessimistic view to bid 2♦, I think this is close to a game force when partner bids 2♣, I would also bid 3N rather than 2N which might encourage partner with other holdings.

[ahydra]

Tricky hand. North has a bit of a problem on the very first round. In my system I would bid 2H showing INV+ in diamonds. CY's negX is OK too (though to be honest I would bid 3S over that as South, which would instill some panic in North!).

After 1D-(1H)-2H, 2S (NAT GF) is clear by South, and now North needs to plan ahead. With such a flat hand it would be tempting to try 3H-3NT; 4NT, but if South has a MIN with shape (opposite which your AAAK are golden) you could miss the slam. I think his best bid is actually 3C. Then:

3D-3H
3NT-4D (set trumps, asking for cues)
4H-4NT
5S (2 with Q)

So, North knows South has probably a 4S6D(21) (6 diamonds likely since didn't bid 3NT over 3C). The spades must be pretty good given the 2S bid rather than just signing off, probably KQxx. So he counts 3 spades, 6 diamonds, 3 other top tricks for twelve. Spades or trumps could split which is about 61%, not great odds for a grand but not bad either; plus, partner might have CQ or SJ. Thta's probably enough to punt 7D, though on a more cautious day he could try 6C last train and South will probably sign off, given that he has a minimum.

ahydra

[pescetom]

With hearts interference we would start much like Cyberyeti, but control-bid after fixing trumps:
1♦-(1♥)-X
2♠-3♣
3♦-4♦
4♥-4♠
4NT(even keys)-5♣
5♠-5NT(denies Q)
6♣(affirms Q)-6♦
p

North does not know Q♠ and South does not know K♣, so we won't get beyond 6♦. We can count 12 tricks, though.

Without interference, we would probably end up in the same spot, just more quickly:
1♦-2♣(FG)
3♦-4♣(RKCB)
4NT(2+Q)-5♣(K?)
5♠-6♦
p

So it's tricky with our system.

[HardVector]

This is a hard hand in that north has good values, but no suit to bid or clear way to continue. I'd actually consider a pass after the 1!h overcall, but if you did that, it would be too hard to catch up. Probably a negative double is a decent way to start, but then it's hard to figure out you should play in diamonds. I like a 2!h bid by north. The cuebid should show a limit raise or better in diamonds. Yes, you only have 3, but with the overcall, it's highly unlikely that partner has 4 hearts. That means that partner is guaranteed 4 diamonds and is a favorite to hold 5. Also, with a minor suit fit, the partnership will strive to find nt if it is the right strain. If you do settle in spades, it's clear it's a Moysian. After the limit raise, with just Ax in hearts, south should not be in a big hurry to bid nt, you should have more stopping power than that. It then becomes a cuebidding session.

1d-(1h)-2h-p-2s-p-3c-p-3h...

With 3h, opener should be showing more than minimal values and a heart control that could be shortness. With this bid, 3n is usually off the table, and you'll be looking for a suit contract. Getting to slam is easier at this point.

This is all dependent upon you and your partner being on the same wavelength as to the meaning of all the cuebids. I'm sure that someone here is going to say I'm full of it, but this would work. This hand is very dependent on good judgement in your bidding, not necessarily good bidding science.

By the way, the reason I start with a 2s bid by south, is that I'm actually uncertain if 2h would be showing a control, or asking for one from partner to bid nt.

[jjsb]

there is 2 things in that hand IMO
1) its surely tricky
2) despite the fact its tricky i dotn think there is a way i will not bid this slam

for me the start is 1D (1H) x
the fouble is denying 4S and i dont see how opener cant rebid below 3D
starting like that even if north is balanced there is too many GOOD POINTS not to go to slam when opener will say he has a H control
so i think something like
1D (1H) x
3D 4D
4H 4nt
5S 5nt
6 or 7D

7D looks promising from that point counting 11 top ticks with just the 3 aces promised and surely north dont have only those 3 aces with nothing . i dont like biddign 7 without counting to 13 thougth so i will just stop at 6D

[etha]

[1♥ (2♥) 3♥ 4♦ 5♣ 5♥ 7♦



3♥ = invite+ 3 card raise of spades.

[dB451]

With the Heart interference, North may judge NT to be risky, and realizing his Hearts make it more likely that South has Diamond length (beyond a minimum 3 or 4), North is willing to start a minor-suit slam sequence, which can end in 5D, if slam isn't there. So, the bidding might proceed: 1D; (1H interference, after which opponents pass throughout); 4H (Redwood or Kickback, 1430 for Diamonds); 5D (2 KCs plus the DQ); 5S (we have all the keycards, so I'll make a Specific Suit Ask); 6D (yes, I have the SK, and also the SQ, but I'm not going to go crazy, so unless this is a national-level event, I'll settle for the Diamond slam).


Without interference, we might have: 1D - 1H - 1S (perhaps an underbid, since a 4-loser hand, but maybe reasonable, since a low-pointed 4-losers) - 2C (4th Suit Forcing) - 2D (showing Diamond length) - 3D (setting suit) - 4H (Redwood or Kickback, 1430 for Diamonds) - 4N (0 or 3 keycards in Diamonds) - 5H (Specific King-Ask) - 6C (King of Clubs) - 6D (I can count 12 tricks - let someone else risk 7, I'm thinking tying for second in 6D, if 7D makes, is good enough) - Pass (OK, partner).

[msjennifer]

Sir,NO WE COULD NOT LOCATE THE SQ IN THE SOUTH HAND.This meant we had to stop in 6D.No one likes to play in a GRAND WHEN ONE CAN NOT COUNT 13 TRICKS .(The key cards had to be confirmed by 5NT bid.Playing the SPIRAL S had to show SK and deny HK by a bid of 6D) .South can easily hold KJxx-Ax-KQJ109x-x .So no way to find out SQ ,(when it was S who bid 6D.)This is a hard- to-bid hand .North did say "sorry partner,I could not see the spade Q in your dark goggles".As per my opinion 7D may fail if trumps are 3/1 ,diamond J not falling, and spades are 4/2 with the opponent holding Jxx of trumps has the spade doubleton.Its not a foolproof 7D.With the normal odds 6D is excellent.

[msjennifer]

Sir,In my personal opinion after 1D-1H - bid of x(negative) or 2C is not the correct bid.North has to bid 2H which is a game forcing bid as played by the wide majority.The bidding then may proceed 2H-2S-3C(denying a heart guard,or a real suit or a fit either in S or D)-3D(6 card suit)-etc With 7 control in his hand I ,personally, feel that perhaps every North will hunt for a little slam in D.

[Winstonm]

FelicityR, on 2019-May-04, 03:05, said:

Playing rubber bridge once again - no fancy systems or conventions - another easy slam gets missed. Though I don't believe it is at all easy to bid the slam in any system, with or without the opponent's interference. Prove me wrong. (By the way I showed this hand to my son who's an expert and plays Precision and he struggled to get to the six level.) And, as always, thank you for your replies.

These are the two hands:-

---

I know the bidding in the diagram is uninspiring but that's how it was.

I acknowledge the responding hand is difficult, but at the same time I really dislike the 2NT bid with 6421 pattern when a perfectly descriptive 2S is available. After 2S, responder can set the suit with 3D and now everything is much, much easier.

[CodeByJim]

Here is an old style solution. P and I play a short !c that shows 13+hcp and is forcing one round. It doesn't give any distribution information.

As S, I would open 1!c. P should say 2!d indicating 9+hcp. She knows we have enough for game. The interference is ignored. It simply shows us where the defensive hcp are.
I bid 2!s and P responds with 3!c showing control of the !c suit. The !h are the only thing in question.
I jump shift to 4!d showing a long and strong suit. Bid tells p to investigate slam with a high point count hand. She bids 4nt.
I respond with 5!s and she sets the contract at 6!d.

Hope this is helpful.

[Cyberyeti]

msjennifer, on 2019-May-05, 12:53, said:

Sir,In my personal opinion after 1D-1H - bid of x(negative) or 2C is not the correct bid.North has to bid 2H which is a game forcing bid as played by the wide majority.The bidding then may proceed 2H-2S-3C(denying a heart guard,or a real suit or a fit either in S or D)-3D(6 card suit)-etc With 7 control in his hand I ,personally, feel that perhaps every North will hunt for a little slam in D.

We play it as a 3 card raise (with a little shape so the 3 trumps figure to be useful), values at least for the 3 level not GF, so it's by no means universally played as that, and in Acol-land I'd be interested to see a poll of how people play it.

[cvcherry]

I think 7♦ would be a bit overbid(though marginal), you have to rely on ♦2-2, or the defender has 3♦ and length in ♠.
If no interference, the auction can be very easy. simple natural bids:
S N
1♦ 3NT
4♦ 4♠
4NT 5♣
6♦
======================
But what if West bid 1♥? I think the auction can be:
1♦ (1♥) Pass! - South is very likely to be short in hearts and he will balance.
1♠ 2♥ - If I have 4 spades, I will X previously. So this cuebid can't mislead to spades trump, it's only a strength showing, meaning the first pass isn't no strength, only no obvious bid.
3♦ 3♠ - I can't have spades support, so it's a control showing cuebid.
3NT 4♣ - South don't know North has so much strength, so would bid 3NT. North continue with control showing cuebid
4NT 5♣
6♦ just as no interference.
======================
When you have no obvious bid, and you think the bidding won't die (in a good chance) if you pass, why not PASS? Of course, this need partner's agreement that PASS didn't absolutely deny strength.

[zimzam]

Im not sure I wanna be in 7 diamond. As I can see it needs spade 3-3 unless diamond is 2-2. That is about a 70% grand slam. Get me to 6 diamond or better 6NT Im happy. Will give a solid plus in any tournament.
1d-1h-dbl
1s-2h (2H is a general game force
3d-4d (This is the hard choise. Sign off 3N or go for a slam)
4h-4s (Que bids)
4n-5c (0314)
5n-6c (club king)
6n or 7d gamble (can count 12 winner now. 3+1+6+2. 13 if 4th spade is good or can be ruffed or covered with queen club or something)

[msjennifer]

cvcherry, on 2019-May-05, 18:17, said:

I think 7♦ would be a bit overbid(though marginal), you have to rely on ♦2-2, or the defender has 3♦ and length in ♠.
If no interference, the auction can be very easy. simple natural bids:
S N
1♦ 3NT
4♦ 4♠
4NT 5♣
6♦
======================
But what if West bid 1♥? I think the auction can be:
1♦ (1♥) Pass! - South is very likely to be short in hearts and he will balance.
1♠ 2♥ - If I have 4 spades, I will X previously. So this cuebid can't mislead to spades trump, it's only a strength showing, meaning the first pass isn't no strength, only no obvious bid.
3♦ 3♠ - I can't have spades support, so it's a control showing cuebid.
3NT 4♣ - South don't know North has so much strength, so would bid 3NT. North continue with control showing cuebid
4NT 5♣
6♦ just as no interference.
======================
When you have no obvious bid, and you think the bidding won't die (in a good chance) if you pass, why not PASS? Of course, this need partner's agreement that PASS didn't absolutely deny strength.

Madam.interesting though it sounds,passiong such a controls packed hand when two clear cut bids namely an unlimited negative double or a 2H are available (and in an established partnership 2C also) appears(and appears only) rather strange and, pardon me, not very logical.

[mikeh]

Rubber bridge, which I have not played for decades, makes bidding these hands difficult because, in the games I used to play and the games I have read about, partnerships have very few agreements, and indeed in some games agreements are limited by the conditions of contest, so even experienced tournament players are not allowed to play all of their gadgets.

In traditional bidding, way back when, the North hand would bid 2H over 1H, which was taken to say nothing other than 'I have a game force hand'.

Over that, South would bid spades, North would preference back to diamonds, and South has an easy 3H cue.

After that a small slam should be reached. Grand isn't bad (it is better than 50%) but the risk-reward is borderline, and in any event I'd have to think a bit more about how the auction might go.

More recently, but still somewhat old-fashioned, North might pass, expecting a reopening by South, who indeed would reopen with 1S. North then cue-bids 2H and off they go.

Moving along chronologically, North might make an off-shape double and South should jump to 2S, since South has a fine playing hand opposite 4 spades. North has a tough time now: a cuebid would presumably agree spades, and the auction becomes unpredictable.

A modern style is for the double of 1H to deny spades. Now, North doubles, South bids 2D, north cuebids and off they go. I think that bidding to 6D is trivial in this method.

[miamijd]

The OP said nothing fancy, and the first response talked about Moscito and a subsequent responder talked about a X denying 4 spades. Oy.

Playing standard GIB-style 2/1, North has a choice at his first bid of three not-so-great calls:
X (you are short one spade)
2H (you are short one diamond)
2C (you are probably short two clubs, not just one)

Personally, I think either X or 2H are OK.

If North makes a negative double:

1D (1H) X
2S 3C
3D 3H
3NT 4D

and now you are going to get to 6D, 6S, or 6NT, all of which are excellent spots (6NT is probably the best MP spot).

If North bids 2H (probably my call):

1D (1H) 2H
2S 3C(1)
3H 3S
4H(2) 4S(3)
5H(4) 6C(5)
7D(6)
(1) game force hand; club control
(2) keycard for H
(3) 0/3
(4) King ask
(5) Kc
(6) South thinks North has 4 diamonds, so the H goes on the Kc, and the 4th spade gets ruffed

7D is a decent spot. Not 100%, but well over 50%.

In the auction given, the 2D bid sent the auction off the rails. When N shows 10+, you have to force to game as South. You cannot make a bid North can pass. 2D there is non-forcing and shows 11-13 or so (maybe an awful 14). With South's great 14, he needs to bid 2S. Now you have a shot at slam.

Cheers,
Mike