[TheoKole]

Interesting bidding decision

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I have a strict 4 rules I use whenever I have the option of passing out a low level take out double for penalties. I'll post my decision of what I did and the reasons for it after people have had the chance to cast a vote.

Cheers

[wank]

3nt

[LBengtsson]

wank, on 2019-March-28, 23:45, said:

3nt

opponents could take first 6 tricks, but on probability partner more likelier to have stiff than void so opponents cant take tricks except if suit solid or lead overtake. weak two opener not made on solid suit so I bid 3nt also.

[Tramticket]

What is the difference between 3NT and 2NT (leb) followed by 3NT in your partnership?

[BillPatch]

At Imps I'll take the Probable +300at IMPS. Assuming that we are playing standard lebensohl (direct denies), I'll show the stopper for 3NT by bidding 2NT first. By the way, the scrambling 2NT is quite different than lebensohl, so I am unsure about what we are supposed to have agreed upon reading the 2NT part of the question.

[TheoKole]

I added the 2NT description because I wanted the bid to be reflective for the reader's agreements, not MY agreements. If the reader's use 2NT as Leibenshoel or as a scramble in their partnership is up to them.

Regards T

[Tramticket]

TheoKole, on 2019-March-29, 14:10, said:

I added the 2NT description because I wanted the bid to be reflective for the reader's agreements, not MY agreements. If the reader's use 2NT as Leibenshoel or as a scramble in their partnership is up to them.

Regards T

Most of the time they will not be able to run 5+ tricks. Most players will not have a solid suit for a weak two (they will often be able to open at the one-level instead). So I am gambling that partner has a stop or enough to make my holding into a stop. Or possibly the suit is blocked. So I am aiming for 3NT. I will bid 2NT (leb) and then follow up with 3NT - this shows a stop (for us).

[TheoKole]

Tramticket, on 2019-March-29, 15:16, said:

Most of the time they will not be able to run 5+ tricks. Most players will not have a solid suit for a weak two (they will often be able to open at the one-level instead). So I am gambling that partner has a stop or enough to make my holding into a stop. Or possibly the suit is blocked. So I am aiming for 3NT. I will bid 2NT (leb) and then follow up with 3NT - this shows a stop (for us).

For anyone who bid 3NT what do you do if you get Xed by RHO to indicate an honor? Will you still chance the 3NT bid or will you deal with it later if it happens?

Regards T

[GrahamJson]

Tramticket, on 2019-March-29, 02:34, said:

What is the difference between 3NT and 2NT (leb) followed by 3NT in your partnership?

The way I play it, they both show a stop but a direct 3NT denies the other major whilsy 2NT 3NT shows four cards in it.

I think it is more common to play that a direct 3NT denies the major and a stop. That seems counterintuitive to me and capable of being misremembered. Hence in all the sequences I play 3NT always shows a stop, which seems logical.

Playing my way you can bid a direct 3NT if you think five small is a stop, or cue bid 3S if you think it isn’t. My choice would be 3S as I think I hold enough for six to be making.its close though.

[apollo1201]

4H in 43 with the long trump hand tapped / overruffed doesn’t seem a piece of cake. And 5m is still a long way where we might not even have a fit.
3NT should have decent chances unless a timid W with AKQJTx contented himself with 2S, or if partner is void and E has Hx and W knows to underlead rather than try an honor from his inner or upper sequence (not sure X conveys this message, and if it is Jx or Tx, I am on the good way).
If I pass, most likely outcome is 300 or 100 for us (5 or 6 trumps plus a side trick). Not enough! And saying something leaves the door open for partner to bid again if she haves « the rest » (although in that case, the 3NT bid will make her fear I have lost values in S).

[Tramticket]

GrahamJson, on 2019-March-30, 02:02, said:

The way I play it, they both show a stop but a direct 3NT denies the other major whilsy 2NT 3NT shows four cards in it.

Yes, this makes far more sense than our methods. To be honest we chose to use the same methods as after leb over a 1NT overcall - for ease of memory.

[Tramticket]

TheoKole, on 2019-March-29, 18:01, said:

For anyone who bid 3NT what do you do if you get Xed by RHO to indicate an honor? Will you still chance the 3NT bid or will you deal with it later if it happens?

Pass. But if partner is staring at a void she might remove it.

For what it's worth, I would play that a double asks for a different suit.

[saramoran]

I wasn't sure....

[apollo1201]

Tramticket, on 2019-March-30, 04:02, said:

Pass. But if partner is staring at a void she might remove it.

For what it's worth, I would play that a double asks for a different suit.

That is why I said I am not sure X conveys « lead S » but rather « find my suit ». I guess there is no consensus here on what use is best for X.

[PhilG007]

TheoKole, on 2019-March-28, 23:40, said:

Interesting bidding decision

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I have a strict 4 rules I use whenever I have the option of passing out a low level take out double for penalties.  I'll post my decision of what I did and the reasons for it after people have had the chance to cast a vote.

Cheers

[miamijd]

3NT.

The opponents' suit is going to block unless LHO has AKQJTx. If RHO has two of the top five honors, it always blocks. And if RHO has one of the top five, then it will block unless LHO leads low. But he won't, because he will have

KQJTxx
AQJTxx
AKJTxx
AKQTxx
AKQJxx

You're telling me you're going to lead low with one of those combinations? No, you won't, you'll lead an honor and block the suit or else establish a trick for me. Hey, that 8 is a big card if RHO has Ax or Kx.

So I'm not losing the first five tricks. Hopefully, partner will have enough so that I can make nine, but if he doesn't, there's no guarantee 2S is going set.

[rmnka447]

I think you just close your eyes and bid 3 NT both at matchpoints and IMPS.

Partner is advertising about an opening bid, so game should have a play somewhere.

If partner is void in ♠ and decides to pull it, you got values in support.

[Winstonm]

Pass for these reasons.

The Moysian in hearts won't play well unless we have all the outside cards - unlikely.
Partner's shortness in spades argues for his acting with slightly less than normal values.
+ 300 or +100 is better than a minus.

[arthh]

I think the (Bob) Hamman rule applies here. As I understand it the rule goes like this: if 3 NT is a possible contract, bid it.

[Cyberyeti]

miamijd, on 2019-March-30, 10:38, said:

3NT.

The opponents' suit is going to block unless LHO has AKQJTx. If RHO has two of the top five honors, it always blocks. And if RHO has one of the top five, then it will block unless LHO leads low. But he won't, because he will have

KQJTxx
AQJTxx
AKJTxx
AKQTxx
AKQJxx

You're telling me you're going to lead low with one of those combinations? No, you won't, you'll lead an honor and block the suit or else establish a trick for me. Hey, that 8 is a big card if RHO has Ax or Kx.

So I'm not losing the first five tricks. Hopefully, partner will have enough so that I can make nine, but if he doesn't, there's no guarantee 2S is going set.

Yes, but in the second part of the question, do you remove when it's doubled by the partner of the 2♠ bid to show an honour as now he does lead small from many of these holdings.