[smerriman]

In sequences such as:

1♦ - 1♥
1N - 2♣
2♦ - 2♥

1♦ - 1♥
1♠ - 2♣
2♦ - 2♥

responder is showing an invitational hand with 5+ hearts.

What does 2N by opener mean? Does it ever make sense to "sign off in 2NT"? Does it ever make sense to "invite an invite"?

What does 3♥ by opener mean? Equally, does this make sense as inviting? Or, while not applicable in the first sequence, is it forcing with the hope of slam in the latter?

[dsLawsd]

Perhaps an agreement is needed for 2 NT here? To me it says I have good diamonds (perhaps 6) with stops for clubs and spades that improved the hand to be 14+. How good is your heart suit?

3♥should be 14 with good diamonds and something like Kx or Ax in hearts to make much sense- the bidding made the hand better in value/fit.

Definitely an excellent and somewhat open question!

[nekthen]

These are two very different sequences for opener. The 1N rebid has limited his hand while the 1♠ rebid is unbalanced and unlimited. 2N seems to be a sign off indicating the low end of the possible holdings with no support for hearts and no more spades than advertised. 3♥ indicates three card support and is GF if opener bid 1♠
After 1N,3♥ is Pick a game.
Bear in mind that responder had the opportunity to bid 2♦ GF and artificial and opener has the option to bypass 2♦ if he is not prepared for responder to pass
If opener has 4♠ he should first bid 1N or 2N if he is balanced and in range a spade fit can still be found.

[Mkgnao]

nekthen, on 2019-March-26, 02:56, said:

These are two very different sequences for opener. The 1N rebid has limited his hand while the 1♠ rebid is unbalanced and unlimited.

1♠ isn't unlimited, it shows 11-17 while 1NT shows (11) 12-14. Whether or not 1♠ is necessarily unbalanced, that is a matter of partnership agreement. An advantage of playing it as both balanced and unbalanced is that you won't end up in the wrong partscore if responder isn't inv or GF.

To answer smerriman's questions:

What does 2N by opener mean? 2N shows a minimum with 2♥.
What does 3♥ by opener mean? A balanced slam try is unlikely with max 17 opposite 10-11 (an unbalanced opener could splinter with shortage). On the other hand, I really dislike bouncing back the invite with 3♥ unless you want to give your opponents every license to double you in 4♥. The latter option (3♥ as inv) is probably most easy to remember, it avoids disasters and therefore it is preferable.

[fluff]

XYZ

In the 2 sequences above, I think sign-off by opener after 2♥ is… PASS.

2nt by opener is constructive and says MAX of 12-14. Responder who has stretched (me?) can then pass or rebid 3♥ if he has 6, suit quality not good enough for a jump to 3♥ after the 2♣ relay. Let’s say:

Kx
A108xxx
QJx
xx

Compared to

Kx
AQJxxx
Jxx
xx

You can read my extensive article on Internet (XYZ), article that was published on BBO some years ago. However, extensive doesn’t mean comprehensive, as bridge players can add or modify the structure to their taste.
Think about this sequence :

1x 1y
1nt 4nt quantitative

How can opener know if it is 18 or 19?

First of all, responder with 18 and NO FIT, KNOWING opener has MAX 14, should bid only 3nt.

That leaves us with 19. Bidding 4nt seems ok, but why not keep some safety in the sequence? Your partner (not you obviously) may have opened with a horrible 12. Why not use this:

1x 1y
1nt 2♣ relay
2♦ forced 3nt = P, I have 19 balanced

Why play 4nt when you can play 3?
This reminds me of stubborn players who refuse to play Drury. Where is the logic in preferring to play 3♠ instead of 2♠ ??? ☺

With 20 balanced, responder just jumps to 4nt after 1nt by opener.

Have fun, xyz is the most fun thing to play.
Fluff

[msjennifer]

:DELETED.REASON :I,frankly,donot know what is this XYZ SYSTEM of bidding.

[fluff]

msjennifer, on 2019-March-26, 08:07, said:

Sir,all depends on "What is the agreed interpretation of the 2C response in both .What does the responder shows or is asking from the opener.Different partnerships treat this differently and so a lot of ambiguity remains." .We treat the 2C bid in the first auction as NONFORCIING and shows 9 cards in H and C 4/5 either way.Openers 2D can be interpreted as 3-2-6-2 and a limited hand and no liking for a H/C contract.In the second auction since openers hand can be unbalanced and upto 16 or BAD 17 HCP 2C is treated as a sort of CHECKBACK for a 3 card heard fit or failing that a good hand with the ability to play in 2NT.Over this openers 2D denies a heart support and shows a limited opening.The 2H by responder shows a 6 card decent heart suit and an eight losesr hand,This is an invitational bid ands opener bids 2NT with a doubleton honour in Heart and 14 good HCP.Failing these requirements he passes.NB.-Unusual hands with unusual distribution of honour points can be easily constructed which do not fit in this scheme.In such cases table judgement is important to pave the way to each a par contract.

Hi there
In xyz, 2♣ is Forcing to 2♦. Opener has no choice.
Take care

[msjennifer]

fluff, on 2019-March-26, 08:50, said:

Hi there
In xyz, 2♣ is Forcing to 2♦. Opener has no choice.
Take care

Sir, thanks a lot for the reminder.I frankly do not know what XYZ is neither am I interested in finding what it is .If and IF only the OP desires to know how the auction will progress as per XYZ then I express my inability.I only expressed what WE PLAY.I withdraw my explanation hereby.Just by the way till now I believed that after opener has limited his by bidding just 1NT to a maximum of 14 HCP then any a reverse bid or a jump bid in a new suit by responder alone is a forcing bid.Hence 1D-1H-1NT-2C is non forcing ,if XYZ says it is a forcing bid and opener can not pass it is hard for us to swallow. However 1D-1H-1S-2C either known as (as per my little knowledge ) the new minor bid or the 4th suit forcing bid or a Checkback as opener as I said can have upto 16-17(BAD) HCP.I sincerely hope that I have made myself clear enough the way WE play it with the assurance that there was no hint of intention that others follow it.THANK YOU AGAIN.

[HardVector]

FYI, XYZ is when there are 3 suit bids at the one level. Modified 2-way stayman is when opener's first rebid is 1n. The reason they are different is because opener has shown different hands. In XYZ, they could still have a hand that could have slam aspirations opposite a game invitational hand and tend to be distributional. After 1n (unless playing weak nt when 1n=15-17), slam is usually out of the picture and opener tends to have a balanced hand.

[ahydra]

In the sequence where opener rebids 1NT, there are players whose style includes the possibility of 1NT being rebid on suitable 31(45) hands, so 2NT as a sign-off makes sense. Otherwise, some artificial use seems best.

In the second sequence, I am not sure why one would want to play 2C as XYZ rather than 4SF.

ahydra

[johnu]

HardVector, on 2019-March-26, 11:51, said:

FYI, XYZ is when there are 3 suit bids at the one level. Modified 2-way stayman is when opener's first rebid is 1n. The reason they are different is because opener has shown different hands. In XYZ, they could still have a hand that could have slam aspirations opposite a game invitational hand and tend to be distributional. After 1n (unless playing weak nt when 1n=15-17), slam is usually out of the picture and opener tends to have a balanced hand.

XYZ can be played after 3 suit bids, or 2 suit bids and 1NT rebid by opener.

Calling it 2-way Stayman is obscure. XYZ covers opener rebidding 1NT or 1 of a major. 2♣ is a relay to 2♦ with an invitational hand (or passing 2♦ with a weak hand with diamonds) and 2♦ is an artificial game force.

[Gerardo]

2-way NMF and 2-way Checkback Stayman are the names I heard

[fluff]

Surely, wanting to play bridge and saying that you are sincerely not interested in learning seem to me a contradiction.

[Joe_Old]

fluff, on 2019-March-27, 06:34, said:

Surely, wanting to play bridge and saying that you are sincerely not interested in learning seem to me a contradiction.

And even if Ms Jennifer has no intention of using the convention herself, wouldn't be useful to understand the opponent's auction when they are playing XYZ?

[cherdano]

I think it is illogical to play 2N as a sign-off, as 2♥ shows 5+ hearts, not 5 exactly - especially in the first sequence, opener will never be in the position to have great confidence in the right spot.
I would play both 2N and 3H as accepting the invite, but uncertainty about the strain - e.g. 3♥ says "I have three hearts but the type of hand that might play better in 3N opposite 5332".

[wank]

2NT = max, doubleton heart
in the second one, 2S = 4153, wants to scramble (e.g. play 2NT)